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As you can see from the URL on my avatar, I have been buying new Porsches since 1974 as long as I could afford them. I have owned six which were all great. I am now on the horns of a dilemma.
In 2013 I traded my 1995 993 for a 2013 basic 991 C2 Coupe. The 993 was perfect (NOTHING WRONG) and I traded it on a whim while its oil was being changed at the dealership. The only option on the 991 was PDK that I thought I needed because I had 2 back surgeries and was becoming incapable of accurately driving the 993. After 15 months of owning the 991 I gave up out of boredom. I sold the 991 in February 2015 for only $5000 less than I paid for it. I ordered my 2015 991 C2 GTS from Stuttgardt and it was delivered in May and I love it.
Now, here is the dilemma. The SA who sold me the 2013 991 bought my 993 from the dealership but stored it outside at the dealership and rarely drove it. It has less than 4000 miles since I sold it in 2013. The SA wants to sell it given he is asking twice what I traded it in for the 2013. I want to have a PPI done here but there is no one available. I have asked the current owner (my SA) if I can take it 220 or 80 miles from my current location where there are many wrenches that know 993's. He will not allow me to do so unless I trailer it given that it has 99600 miles on the odometer.
I would like to retrieve the car that I loved for 18 years. However, given the lack of attention to the car, I believe I must ignore it.
Will probably need all the seals replaced after all that time being neglected and not being driven. Brake system will likely have to be redone if it was never flushed since 2013.
Nothing money can't fix, but is it worth it? Lots of 993s out there that have been taken care of unless your heart is set on your old one specifically.
The "old one"is the first of all my Porsches that I never had to deliver for a repair call for 18 years. All I did was change the oil and tune it for 18 years. I had no business trading it in. It is the last of the many air-cooled that I have owned and enjoy. I am particularly disturbed by the SA's treatment of it. I have no sound reason to own two Porsches other than sentimentality. I think I will forget it.
Will probably need all the seals replaced after all that time being neglected and not being driven. Brake system will likely have to be redone if it was never flushed since 2013.
None of the above is particularly true. What "seals" are we talking about here, exactly? If cars were damaged by 1K mile/year of use, half the sports cars in America would be up on cinder blocks.
Anyway, the thing that's really crazy (if true) is that the SA is asking twice what you sold him the car for in 2013. That year was the high water mark in the air-cooled market (or maybe 2014), and the market has cooled since then. You either wildly underpriced the car in 2013 or the SA is wildly overpricing it now. The price today should be about the same as before, or lower considering the car has been sitting outside for four years. 4K miles in four years isn't a problem at all. Sitting outside is, if the cosmetics have been harmed by sun/heat exposure.
So what is the question exactly? (tongue in cheek here, give me some room)
- Should you "go home" again ?
- Should you pay 2x what you traded it for ?
- Should you worry about the condition ? All of the above ? ;-)
I have a different take on the 993. I've been lucky to (over many years) own everything from 356/912/early911/midyear911/993/996/991 and some boxsters/caymans. There is ONE car from that entire lot which I do not miss... The 993. (Ok 2: the 911SC as well but that is because I already bought it back and sold it again).. That car flummoxed me. It is IMO one of the prettiest 911s ever designed but it's totally confusing for someone who has owned a bit of everything. The interior of a 911SC with the windshield in your face, the exterior of a modern car, a mix and match of ****ty old tech (AC, immobilizer, old electronics) and modern features (power steering, ABS, 6 gears, ODB)... I found it too smooth and too quiet and too "meh" and yet everytime I parked it I could not help turning back and looking at it...
If it was me, I would not buy it back. I did that on the SC and spent more $ on it, and in the end I remembered why I sold it in the first place... Granted your case was health related but I'm sure there was a little more than that to it. You've been there done that. It's probably due for valve guides and has secondary air passages all coked up by now (lucky you ODB1 on a 95 has no clue)... Lack of use is never good, I don't know how bad it could be but it'll cost you $$$ for sure sooner or later. ... If you want the old Porsche experience again, I'd say go buy an older 911 (heck even a 912), something raw and visceral. Keep the current beast. Something like an affordable 74-85 911 with the old fashioned 915 box that you can ADD to your garage and keep the 991. I've always been happiest with one old + one new P-car.
Then there's price. I recently got an opportunity to buy back my old 356, a car I sold for $15K, for $80K !!! I choked a little, muttered "F-that" to myself and thanked the guy for the opportunity. I imagine you probably feel the same... Shuffle the cards and draw something different, you've already visited that particular scenario... Just MHO of course.. If you dream of that car, get it back ;-)
PS: Totally unsollicited now.... I have this personal "chart" in my head of what a car should be worth given its performance/feel/smile it gives me...
Most classic cars, mostly porsches, have totally jumped the shark on that chart... I think if you go back and buy a $50-60K+ 993 you will be scratching your head, especially when a base 991 is the same price ;-) Same for a $200K early 911S (at least when a T is 1/3 the cost). Anyway, just for grins, the only car left on my personal chart that is undervalued in smiles per $ is the BMW 2002 (base or tii)... Go buy one of these while they are affordable, I say ;-) Sorry, back under my rock !
None of the above is particularly true. What "seals" are we talking about here, exactly? If cars were damaged by 1K mile/year of use, half the sports cars in America would be up on cinder blocks.
If the car hasn't been driven frequently (note, not same as far), the engine, transmission and fuel seals dry up on air cooled cars. Having restored a '73 RS and currently doing a '73S (see my avatar), I can assure you of this. It is exacerbated by outside storage.
Brake fluid that has sat for 4 years has to be flushed. Again, being outside, it has absorbed water and likely started to rust.
He may get lucky and neither of these is true. But it is a real possibility.
If the car hasn't been driven frequently (note, not same as far), the engine, transmission and fuel seals dry up on air cooled cars. Having restored a '73 RS and currently doing a '73S (see my avatar), I can assure you of this. It is exacerbated by outside storage.
Brake fluid that has sat for 4 years has to be flushed. Again, being outside, it has absorbed water and likely started to rust.
He may get lucky and neither of these is true. But it is a real possibility.
Sure, if a car sits for many, many years this can be a problem. But we're talking here about four years with regular use. On a 993 the valve and chain cover rubber seals harden and leak with heat cycling and age, not sitting. I've rebuilt a lot of leaky 911 engines over the years and have never seen problems from low-mileage use for a few years. Heat cycling and general age are the enemies. On your '73 put a glaze of 574 on both sides of all the graphite gaskets and you'll have a leak-free engine.
None of the above is particularly true. What "seals" are we talking about here, exactly? If cars were damaged by 1K mile/year of use, half the sports cars in America would be up on cinder blocks.
Anyway, the thing that's really crazy (if true) is that the SA is asking twice what you sold him the car for in 2013. That year was the high water mark in the air-cooled market (or maybe 2014), and the market has cooled since then. You either wildly underpriced the car in 2013 or the SA is wildly overpricing it now. The price today should be about the same as before, or lower considering the car has been sitting outside for four years. 4K miles in four years isn't a problem at all. Sitting outside is, if the cosmetics have been harmed by sun/heat exposure.
Sure, if a car sits for many, many years this can be a problem. But we're talking here about four years with regular use. On a 993 the valve and chain cover rubber seals harden and leak with heat cycling and age, not sitting. I've rebuilt a lot of leaky 911 engines over the years and have never seen problems from low-mileage use for a few years. Heat cycling and general age are the enemies. On your '73 put a glaze of 574 on both sides of all the graphite gaskets and you'll have a leak-free engine.
Oh trust me, my engine doesn't leak...any more! Sat unused for 5 years before I bought it, but to your point, it was pobably leaking before its 5 year snooze.
It's very romantic to want your old 993 back - somedays I wish I had mine back as well (1996 C4S):
But what you need to do before you go ga-ga over the old love, is go out and drive one again for 30 minutes. They are quite slow, primitive, noisy and a Subaru STi will eat its lunch, and don't even think of going up against a BMW M3 made after 2002 with one, you'd be embarrassed. Yes, they look cool, but the modern 991 will have spoiled you so badly you will get in one and say "I can't believe they put this out in the 90's".
I also think the Porsche ramp-up in appreciation is leveling off considerably after being over-heated for the past few years on air-cooled cars. Sure there are a few unique models out there, but a mainline 993 - I just don't see it continuing to deliver a good ROI.
Yes, they look cool, but the modern 991 will have spoiled you so badly you will get in one and say "I can't believe they put this out in the 90's".
I think you're absolutely right about the capabilities of the 991. Runs circles around earlier 911's and everything else on the road, and does it so competently. But despite how good my 991 is, I find myself reaching for the keys to my early car and my 993 more often. There's no wrong answer here, but I do completely understand why someone would pay $50K for a nice 993 and more for a nice longhood. They are special cars -- like time traveling to the era before automotive technology was computerized and perfected.
08-25-2017, 05:09 PM
Advice from modest collectors
