kennypowers

yeah man, i dnot know about that

granted ive driven coupe versions of both, but i dont think they are in the same league, nor do they feel the same at all.

the 911 is considerably more raw, or at least my spec is with SPASM.

the 911 is way lighter and feels way lighter. it is a far more engaging experience and the 911 handles far better than an e9x or f8x m3.

good car, but its no 911.

Needsdecaf

No, they really aren't.

First, there's no way BMW is going to make a CS cabrio. It just doesn't fit. The M4 cab doesn't even have the regular M4 seats...it can't because of the integrated belts and crash certification. So now you're going to have a CS with the 4 series seats and carbon door panels. No, does not compute.

Second, I really, really was high on the F8X. Was one of the first to see it in the states. Drove many, many versions of it thanks to some cool forum members. When I bought my 911, I was debating three cars heavily. I really wanted a 911, but that meant I wasn't going to be able to daily it and I'd have to buy a "beater" for my daily. Or, I could go F8X or get a C63. So one day, I took off work for the afternoon and drove these 4 back to back: 991 cab, PDK C63S sedan, M3 sedan comp DCT, M4 cabrio non-comp. Keep in mind I had previously driven all of these cars at least 3 times each.

The M4 Cabrio was the worst of the 4. It felt heavy. Top up or down. It's still like 500 lbs heavier than an M4 coupe. And top down, it really emphasized the turbo lag. The fake sound was largely gone and all you heard was the farting. I did not care for it at all.

M3 - I liked it. Still like it. A lot. But don't love it. I felt that DCT was a better match for the car than the MT. Fast as crap, keeps the car in the boost. The comp pack suspension really dialed out a lot of the harsh ride of the earlier cars. Felt, for a 4 door sedan, pretty damn light and nimble. But the seats....way, way too narrow for me. The ride, while better, is still stiff. And it just has traction issues everywhere, even in the dry, in hot Houston. The exhaust, while better with the comp pack, still sounds really flatulant. I know Money2536 (Matt Moreman) went through a few exhausts trying to get his to sound better and couldn't. That twin turbo design just doesn't sound good. And finally, the steering....it's just numb. Makes my early 991 seem like a 993 by comparison.

The C63 was an interesting proposition. I like the looks (I know many don't) and the interior oozed cool factor. The chassis didn't feel as nimble as the M3 but my god that engine is a freaking MONSTER. Not just the overall power / torque (which is immense for a 4 liter) but the way it's tuned in Sport plus and Race is just a pure animal. From the lack of lag, to the snaps and pops, to the hair trigger throttle response, it just is an angry, angry beast and it's as fun as hell. If I had a crap ton of money, I'd be getting an E63S for my daily. I'm sure it's going to be an absolute hoonigan. But in the end, I felt that it was a bit of a one trick pony, even though the chassis is plenty capable. The experience is just dominated by the engine so greatly that you'd be wanting to just do burnouts and pull up the back of the landscaper in his beat Dodge Ram during your morning commute.

Compared to the M4 cabrio, the 991 is much stiffer, much lighter, much more nimble and much quicker. The car feels much more cohesively engineered. You don't feel like you are sacrificing much by getting the cabrio. Whereas in the M4 you are aware of the weight penalty and lack of stiffness every second you are driving it.

fuddman

BMW will allow a CS convertible if they see a profit in it. And that has yet to be determined.

Obviously, they are testing the waters with this CS thing and, if it pans out (read: succeeds in skimming off a bunch of Porsche fans), then they'll start thinking about a convertible. Also, I think BMW is headed back to all soft top convertibles. Which, If they do, will make the M car lineup that much more attractive and competitive.

*991*

I just traded in my 2017 M4 comp pack fully loaded except no CCB for a 2013 911 coupe 4s. Both are manual trans. Some first thoughts, now I realize that the 911 is a 2013 and maybe the 2017 911 is different but anyway, the M4 technology is considerably better than the 911 the M4 is quite a bit quicker than the 911 obviously from the turbo however the 911 handles better and grips the corners better. The 911 just feels more special than the M4. For a daily driver I would have stayed with the M4 but for a weekend fun car its a no brainer for me I love the 911

NF4710

If we are comparing MT to MT cars as you suggested the stats I have seen do not support the M4 being "quite a bit quicker." 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are pretty close for these cars. Perhaps the sensation of speed is different. Regardless the driving position alone makes it clear they are two different kinds of car. M4 is tremendous value...but at the end of the day it lacks the visceral thrill of the 911.

NF

Dan Nagy

I don't miss it in the least. The 911 is superb.

*991*

I dont know what the actual 0-60 is in the 991.1 NA But I know the mid range power speed and torque was more in my M4 than my 911.
However I agree with your last statement
' M4 is tremendous value...but at the end of the day it lacks the visceral thrill of the 911.' That is ultimately why I made the change to 991

fast1

Two different cars with two different markets. The M4 convertible is a practical sporty car with excellent acceleration. The 991 is a pure sports car with no compromises. There's only so much you can do with a 4K+ lb M4 convertible.
My advice is that if after test driving both cars there's still indecision, I'd go with the M4 which will cost about $40K less than a 991 and be a lot more practical than a 991.

Selo

You have to compare chassis to chassis.
The M4 is the same chassis used on a $40,000 dollar car, whereas the 911 can use the same chassis that supports a $150,000 to $200,000 car. Which one is more capable? Always better, imo, to buy a cheaper version of a pricey car and get 90% of the capability at half the cost of the expensive model, than to buy the most expensive version of a cheaper car and get 110% of the performance of the cheaper model.

Elphilly

I traded in my m4 for a 991.2 GTS a couple of weeks ago, and I can't imagine going back. When I first test drive a 991.2 CS, the feel was night and day. I was able to actually put down power, instead of light up the tcs. Dyno pulls are one thing, but without traction, they're meaningless. On my drive home, i felt like I was driving a sofa on really hard springs. Even with SPASM, the 991.2 ride is superior. You feel more of the road, but the damping just takes the edge off. The steering feel is light years better, and the throttle and brake modulation are actually communicative. Sport plus on the m4 is just a WOT on/off switch. It feels fast for that reason, but give me a go pedal with feel, any day. I just figured I'd add fuel to the fire, but it looks like you've already made up your mind. One last thing- no rattles at all in the 911.

dcoy

I too was a 2015 M3 owner. I went for a test drive in a C4S and instantly told myself I need a 911. I picked up a 991 C4 a month or so ago.

R_Rated

Ran across this Article: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

Summary - A base (manual) 911 is barely slower to 60 than the DCT M despite the huge power deficiency. The 911 kills it in every single driving related category but loses on practicality, place to put cell phone was noted... Note this is a stripper base 911 with no fancy diff, transmission, suspension or pdcc goodies. Even with the Porsche on standard brakes, it out brakes the M on carbon ceramics... The M was FULLY loaded CCB included!

mac10

In my personal opinion Car and Driver is consistently slightly biased toward M products for some reason. They've done similar tests in the past where their M tester had all the go fast goodies against a stripped down competitor.

*991*

Does C&D pick the options the cars they are testing or does BMW or Porsche just send them?

R_Rated

I think they make a request and then take what they are given for the review based on comments from the videos.

This test was clearly stacked in the M's favor but even so the Porsche killed the Bimmer outside of drag racing, which would have been equal if PDK in Porsche or Porsche would have won if Manual in M. In the no option base C2, it out handled, was more precise, more fun to drive, more planted, etc, etc everything driving related. This compared to every box ticked M including CCB's.... which still lost to the standard steel brakes on the 911.

Additionally - since a drag race is the only place the severely handicapped 911 lost - the 991.2 would win in every performance category.

The M has more cubby holes is the only praise over the 911....