Lap timers at fault?
11-02-2016, 03:39 PM
#46
Instructor
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Location: Southeastern PA
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Ultimately, bad track manners cause frustration, promote "red mist" and generally (IMO) increase the rate of incidents. This is definitely a case of "a few bad apples spoil the barrel".
I think things would improve quickly by putting one of the Chief Instructors or Track chair in the right seat of a fast car with a radio. Black flag the guys who are having awareness problems and have them sit out the rest of the session. If they reoffend, they run in a lower group for the rest of the weekend...
BTW, the video is a combined red/black group on the third day of a three day weekend. There was a suggestion made that this behavior improved over the course of the weekend. It didn't. In fact, some of the worst offenders seem to have been in the Red group. I could post other videos from Friday and Saturday showing the same **** with different cars, but you get the idea...
Also... despite the fact that you see me waving at the guy in front of me during some of the MANY passing opportunities I do have a smile on my face and basically forgot about how frustrating this was until I watched the video. That said, I do definitely believe that something should be done to shake things up when stuff like this is going on...
I think things would improve quickly by putting one of the Chief Instructors or Track chair in the right seat of a fast car with a radio. Black flag the guys who are having awareness problems and have them sit out the rest of the session. If they reoffend, they run in a lower group for the rest of the weekend...
BTW, the video is a combined red/black group on the third day of a three day weekend. There was a suggestion made that this behavior improved over the course of the weekend. It didn't. In fact, some of the worst offenders seem to have been in the Red group. I could post other videos from Friday and Saturday showing the same **** with different cars, but you get the idea...
Also... despite the fact that you see me waving at the guy in front of me during some of the MANY passing opportunities I do have a smile on my face and basically forgot about how frustrating this was until I watched the video. That said, I do definitely believe that something should be done to shake things up when stuff like this is going on...
11-02-2016, 03:46 PM
#47
Instructor
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Location: Southeastern PA
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The most effective measure I've seen to make sure people are aware and give appropriate point-bys is to have a high standard for these things during checkouts, and to have a policy that people will be demoted if they're not meeting the standards of their run group. Chin takes this approach, and it works well.
11-03-2016, 03:40 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
Things I learned in DE
Things I learned about the psychology of point-bys in HPDE (some of this shows up in CMAC's video):
1) I've never had a problem with the lower powered cars giving point-bys, it's almost always the higher powered cars that are slow. For some reason many GT3 drivers do not like to give point-bys, goes for Turbo drivers, GT4 drivers, etc.
2) Some people get stuck behind a slower driver that won't give you the point-by because they are behind someone else and think the road isn't open in front of them. What they don't understand is that you want to eventually pass both of them.
3) Some people feel that if you give a point-by to them that they are now higher then you in the driver skill food chain and will never give that point-by back.
So I'm on the track having a blast until I catch up to a particular GT3, I would ride his *** in the turns, he would push it on the straights and slowly start to leave me until the next turn. This went on for 4 laps to the point that I was riding his *** really close to get his attention. He eventually gave me the point-by and I finished my session. Went to talk to the CI about it (not complaining, just asking about the guy - I spoke to 'the guy' face-to-face later) and discovered that this is his third GT3 (two have been wrecked beyond repair), that he's not a very good driver, and that I need to leave some reaction room when following him. Holy smokes, now I feel like I dodged a bullet.
I spoke to 'the guy' and got the answer I feared the most - btw, the choices are; a) I just didn't want to give you a point-by, or b) I didn't know you were there. I got answer b! Lesson learned, it's just HPDE, the only way to win is to drive home, and unless you already know the driver and have driven with him/her before you should probably leave some room. The psychology of the first three I mentioned can be overcome with a face-to-face conversation, but clueless with zero situational awareness needs to be given a wide berth. Final note, 'the guy' wrecked that GT3 two weekends later.
1) I've never had a problem with the lower powered cars giving point-bys, it's almost always the higher powered cars that are slow. For some reason many GT3 drivers do not like to give point-bys, goes for Turbo drivers, GT4 drivers, etc.
2) Some people get stuck behind a slower driver that won't give you the point-by because they are behind someone else and think the road isn't open in front of them. What they don't understand is that you want to eventually pass both of them.
3) Some people feel that if you give a point-by to them that they are now higher then you in the driver skill food chain and will never give that point-by back.
So I'm on the track having a blast until I catch up to a particular GT3, I would ride his *** in the turns, he would push it on the straights and slowly start to leave me until the next turn. This went on for 4 laps to the point that I was riding his *** really close to get his attention. He eventually gave me the point-by and I finished my session. Went to talk to the CI about it (not complaining, just asking about the guy - I spoke to 'the guy' face-to-face later) and discovered that this is his third GT3 (two have been wrecked beyond repair), that he's not a very good driver, and that I need to leave some reaction room when following him. Holy smokes, now I feel like I dodged a bullet.
I spoke to 'the guy' and got the answer I feared the most - btw, the choices are; a) I just didn't want to give you a point-by, or b) I didn't know you were there. I got answer b! Lesson learned, it's just HPDE, the only way to win is to drive home, and unless you already know the driver and have driven with him/her before you should probably leave some room. The psychology of the first three I mentioned can be overcome with a face-to-face conversation, but clueless with zero situational awareness needs to be given a wide berth. Final note, 'the guy' wrecked that GT3 two weekends later.
