MisterYe

So in light of my recent experience, I quickly learned that you're pretty much SOL on value of your car it gets damaged in an accident(specifically in ONTARIO) - be it your fault or someone else. Insurance will not pay you above the value; at best you have waiver of depreciation, and you'll get the MSRP back. In my case, if your car has appreciated and is selling well above list price...well that's too bad. Accelerated depreciation is also out of the question. Since it's happened already I'm now looking forward to see how I can protect my assets in the future.

I know we expect to have new changes to insurance coverage coming in June, but I don't think this is something that will be addressed.

Turbodan

Diminished value has been paid out in Ontario. Most insurance companies don't want to pay this but they can be sued for it. I can assist with going after diminished value if anyone needs.
Bunnn what type of car do you own and what happened?

NOBLEGT3

Insurance is meant to put you back in the position you were before the loss not for you to profit from it. If you have a car that is appreciating get it appraised and advise your insurer. That will protect you

jumper5836

^very true
I think some people bought into a car when it was low. Now for example 993 Turbo owners sitting on cars that are double their value. Same can be said about other older models as well. They still pay premiums for back in the day value.
If they want to get what the cars worth today they need to get it appraised and pay for this new value.

Not sure though how it works for newers cars though which I think the OP is talking about.

MisterYe

I've done some reading, and note that there is some mention of it - doesnt seem to have much details, though. However, I also found a case in re: owner sueing dealership for diminished value on their Viper - the case was dismissed by the judge earlier this year(after 2 years). The insurance litigator I spoke with also advised me of her case, it was dismissed earlier this year. This make me think that it'll be an uphill battle. I've already advised my insurance of the cars value situation, they simply declined, but they did mention they know the courts are reviewing these matters. I'm the owner of a GT4; to keep it short, car wash crashed my car and put a $65k repair bill on it(situation is a lot more complicated but this is essentially it).


Yes, I agree and this is why I tried to pursue this through litigation since my insurance refuses; however, even the lawyer advise me to not pursue the matter.

I would argue that they are the same thing, new or old, if your asset appreciated you should be covered. The recently bubbled up values of GT3, GT4, and older desirable models are just the tip of it.


For those interested, these are the 2 recent cases I'm referring to. (specific to Ontario as I know BC and Alberta has more success)


“The decision of Deputy Judge Anschell in Heiner v. Pasha et al. (January 27, 2016) addresses this issue. In this matter, the plaintiff claimed the diminished value of a vehicle, arguing that same was equivalent to a pure economic loss, and therefore did not fall under section 263(5) of the Insurance Act. The plaintiff urged that the court follow Alberta and British Columbia case law.

Deputy Judge Anschell concluded that the language of section 263 clearly barred the plaintiff from bringing an action for diminished value of her vehicle. As a result, the plaintiff’s claim was dismissed.

Deputy Judge Anschell referenced the 2007 decision of the Ontario Court of Appeal in Clarendon National Insurance v. Candow, which stated as follows:

Section 262 of the Insurance Act replaced the tort system that resolved automobile damage claims prior to its enactment. In the new statutory scheme, insureds can no longer sue the tortfeasor driver whose negligence has caused damage to their cars. Rather, their own liability insurer pays for the damage, to the extent that they were not at fault, under the third party liability section of their motor vehicle liability policies. Insureds can recover the at-fault portion of their damage by purchasing collision coverage. Insurers have no right of subrogation for payments to their own insureds, but, on the other hand, do not have to pay the subrogated claims previously brought by other insurers in the tort system. The result is the statutory regime eliminates the transactions costs that were inherent in the tort system.

Deputy Judge Anschell also referenced the recent decision of Keyhani v. Downsview Chrysler Toronto, 2016, in which Deputy Judge Hunt concluded that “any effort to recover the apparent diminished value of the vehicle is barred by the operation of section 263 of the Insurance Act”

Turbodan

The issue is if you have a car that was damaged and fixed. if there are two cars side by side and one has had a 65k insurance claim, which is worth more money? answer is obvious so insurance should pay you for the difference between the two cars aka diminished value.
I know of some parties that have been paid dv by insurance companies on Ontario.

Bud Fox

Trade it in to a Quebec dealer? Maybe they will CPO it for the next guy

MisterYe

I couldn't agree more and this is what I believed as well... until I got some professional advice and did some reading. Do you have more details in re: how these parties were able to get diminished values? The 2 recent decision leads me to believe taking this to court won't really get anywhere. Thanks in advance.

MisterYe

It's a bit shady, I would disclose to dealer and see what I can get, in all honesty this was a car that I had intention to keep..so if it's repaired and drives okay then I might just hold on.

theiceman

Is the gt4 selling above list?

Bacura

That was my question as well. Also, the car wash story would be interesting to hear about.

MisterYe

Yes, it's currently going around 35-40 over list. It takes away from the whole value preposition of the car, but that's another discussion.


I had another thread about this, but to keep it short. Employee returning my car took an unnecessary turn to check out another residences car(a Lava 991 GT3RS), admitted to going a bit fast and couldnt clear the short left hand turn. Proceeded to smash into a Continental GT and GTI.

shizzle

I wonder if it's possible to do agreed value on insurance on a new car. I insisted with my insurance company that my 997.2 RS was worth more then what I paid (I bought it used a few years ago). I had to fill out a form, send some ads showing that the car was worth more, and after a little back and forth, I got an agreed value for only a small increase in premium.

Sorry to hear about your car, I was hoping to see you at the Glen again!

Torontoworker

My question on new car values and agreed value insurance is that wouldn't you need a value appraisal yearly as well as paying an increase in premium payments to match the latest values?

One could suggest that the no fault insurance act was never intended to insure an 'investment loss'.

Like the ambulance chasing lawyers that have moved north from Buffalo that have driven up everyone's premiums - we now have several deprecated value lawsuits in our courts?? Great...

It's an unusual and happy circumstance for GT4 owners that due to Porsche underestimating demand, these cars have jumped up in value over what they paid. But I fail to see why I and all other auto insurance clients in Ontario should be saddled with extra costs should these lawsuits prevail *unless* you are paying an increase based upon a yearly appraisal.

MisterYe

I guess ultimately I didn't expect for this to happen, and I had the intention to keep my car. But it would be interesting to talk to my insurance company about this going forward. I'll be back once the car is back, you'll see me around, haha.

Ultimately, if that was an option for insurance owners, Im sure some would buy it. The issue here isn't so much investment, but in the case that your car gets written off by some freak accident, the value you're technically covered for won't get you your car back. In my case, there was a potential discussion of writing off the GT4, if this was to happen the cheque I would get cannot cover the replacement cost of the car. I originally left out my car because there are so many models throughout the decades that have appreciated, so the issue here isn't specific to GT4 owners. As for these cases, they are usually against the party at fault and not the insurance companies.