Canadian Economy Slowing
02-12-2014, 04:07 PM
#46
It always amazes me how small of an outlook many have.
/its fine here so it must be ok elsewhere.
The deck is stacked against this country right now thats for sure. How it will play out is anyones guess since some of these things have defied logic and reason so far.
But history has shown we are not immune to any kind of correction. It has and will happen again. There are a lot of people already in hot water. Just because your company is doing well, it doesnt speak for the a majority out there.
/its fine here so it must be ok elsewhere.
The deck is stacked against this country right now thats for sure. How it will play out is anyones guess since some of these things have defied logic and reason so far.
But history has shown we are not immune to any kind of correction. It has and will happen again. There are a lot of people already in hot water. Just because your company is doing well, it doesnt speak for the a majority out there.
02-12-2014, 04:53 PM
#47
Race Car
Just some observations...
I'm new to Toronto and you can say relatively new to Canada having been in Dubai for the past 10 years (I'm an ex-Albertan). What is clearly evident is that Toronto is where everyone wants to be and with that I have noticed the following:
1. People want to live downtown. We know two couples (wife's friends) who have both just sold their nicely appointed and well spaced out homes in the GTA and paid over $1 million just to be close to the downtown core (beaches). One home is rather nice and the other I think to myself....???
2. The commute can't be avoided. When we looked at homes it was a difficult decision to locate far east (we wanted a large home with a nice backyard and not pay $1 million - is that too much to ask?!).
3. The competitive job market will remain. There are just too many people with MBA's or too many qualified people who want to be in Toronto. Companies are the ones winning at the moment as I've heard of a few acquaintances accepting lower paying roles just to avoid a commute (they live downtown as well)
When my contract is up I will admit that I'm a little worried (not on my qualifications or aptitude) but the lack of network that I have in order to view or be frontal to opportunities.
I'm new to Toronto and you can say relatively new to Canada having been in Dubai for the past 10 years (I'm an ex-Albertan). What is clearly evident is that Toronto is where everyone wants to be and with that I have noticed the following:
1. People want to live downtown. We know two couples (wife's friends) who have both just sold their nicely appointed and well spaced out homes in the GTA and paid over $1 million just to be close to the downtown core (beaches). One home is rather nice and the other I think to myself....???
2. The commute can't be avoided. When we looked at homes it was a difficult decision to locate far east (we wanted a large home with a nice backyard and not pay $1 million - is that too much to ask?!).
3. The competitive job market will remain. There are just too many people with MBA's or too many qualified people who want to be in Toronto. Companies are the ones winning at the moment as I've heard of a few acquaintances accepting lower paying roles just to avoid a commute (they live downtown as well)
When my contract is up I will admit that I'm a little worried (not on my qualifications or aptitude) but the lack of network that I have in order to view or be frontal to opportunities.
02-12-2014, 06:45 PM
#48
Burning Brakes
The divide between the rich and the middle class is getting bigger and bigger.
My established long term clients have never made so much money in their companies as in the last 5 years.
These are not big inter provincial companies but simply small owner managed businesses. Sales averaging $40M to $50M a year and net income (after appropriate salaries to managers) in excess of $5M to $10M.
Meanwhile my professional clients like dentists and doctors rarely make more than $1M a year and probably average $500,000. This hasn't change significantly over the last 10 years or so.
At my golf club parking lot late model Porsche 911 Turbos are plentiful. Ferrari's, Bentley's etc are out in force in the summer. Thanks to my parking pass they don't tow away my pitiful 964.
My established long term clients have never made so much money in their companies as in the last 5 years.
These are not big inter provincial companies but simply small owner managed businesses. Sales averaging $40M to $50M a year and net income (after appropriate salaries to managers) in excess of $5M to $10M.
Meanwhile my professional clients like dentists and doctors rarely make more than $1M a year and probably average $500,000. This hasn't change significantly over the last 10 years or so.
At my golf club parking lot late model Porsche 911 Turbos are plentiful. Ferrari's, Bentley's etc are out in force in the summer. Thanks to my parking pass they don't tow away my pitiful 964.
02-12-2014, 06:50 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
The divide between the rich and the middle class is getting bigger and bigger.
My established long term clients have never made so much money in their companies as in the last 5 years.
These are not big inter provincial companies but simply small owner managed businesses. Sales averaging $40M to $50M a year and net income (after appropriate salaries to managers) in excess of $5M to $10M.
Meanwhile my professional clients like dentists and doctors rarely make more than $1M a year and probably average $500,000. This hasn't change significantly over the last 10 years or so.
At my golf club parking lot late model Porsche 911 Turbos are plentiful. Ferrari's, Bentley's etc are out in force in the summer. Thanks to my parking pass they don't tow away my pitiful 964.
My established long term clients have never made so much money in their companies as in the last 5 years.
These are not big inter provincial companies but simply small owner managed businesses. Sales averaging $40M to $50M a year and net income (after appropriate salaries to managers) in excess of $5M to $10M.
Meanwhile my professional clients like dentists and doctors rarely make more than $1M a year and probably average $500,000. This hasn't change significantly over the last 10 years or so.
At my golf club parking lot late model Porsche 911 Turbos are plentiful. Ferrari's, Bentley's etc are out in force in the summer. Thanks to my parking pass they don't tow away my pitiful 964.
02-12-2014, 07:45 PM
#51
Nordschleife Master
i think im going to go cut myself now after reading these numbers. 
The divide between the rich and the middle class is getting bigger and bigger.
My established long term clients have never made so much money in their companies as in the last 5 years.
These are not big inter provincial companies but simply small owner managed businesses. Sales averaging $40M to $50M a year and net income (after appropriate salaries to managers) in excess of $5M to $10M.
Meanwhile my professional clients like dentists and doctors rarely make more than $1M a year and probably average $500,000. This hasn't change significantly over the last 10 years or so.
At my golf club parking lot late model Porsche 911 Turbos are plentiful. Ferrari's, Bentley's etc are out in force in the summer. Thanks to my parking pass they don't tow away my pitiful 964.
My established long term clients have never made so much money in their companies as in the last 5 years.
These are not big inter provincial companies but simply small owner managed businesses. Sales averaging $40M to $50M a year and net income (after appropriate salaries to managers) in excess of $5M to $10M.
Meanwhile my professional clients like dentists and doctors rarely make more than $1M a year and probably average $500,000. This hasn't change significantly over the last 10 years or so.
At my golf club parking lot late model Porsche 911 Turbos are plentiful. Ferrari's, Bentley's etc are out in force in the summer. Thanks to my parking pass they don't tow away my pitiful 964.
02-12-2014, 08:06 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
It's an interesting proposition. Housing ownership is measured by the ability to carry the cost and that comes down to the gross debt service ratio. Financiers want/need to lend money and the GDSR is the constraining factor. There's another scenario at play though and thats the disparity between the large urban centres and the rural areas in ON. Obviously there's more opportunity in the urban centres but the spillover in the rural areas is very low right now and for anyone looking at buying property this is a good time (and, i'm not in RE). Outside of the major population centres things are dire and if not for generous infusions of public monies i'm sure there'd be economic collapse both in business failures and RE values.
Whether we like it or not our population is too small to sustain a robust economy. Foreign trade is essential to our collective wellbeing and any and all advantage in that light showed be exploited, including a diminished Can$.
Whether we like it or not our population is too small to sustain a robust economy. Foreign trade is essential to our collective wellbeing and any and all advantage in that light showed be exploited, including a diminished Can$.
02-12-2014, 08:08 PM
#53
Burning Brakes
You are correct $500k is still in the top 1% as defined by the NDP.
The point I was trying to make was that my professional clients (whom I define as middle class or "pink" collar (as in they work a desk job but have limitations as to how much they can make)) are falling way behind those who own a business.
Those two used to be quite close about 10 years ago but I have noticed a significant widening of the income gap in the last 5 years.
Actually now that I re-think this ......... never mind I don't know how this relates to this thread. Sorry.
My wife has always told me that my sense of what the "average" Canadian family earns is way out of line and I guess she is right.
The point I was trying to make was that my professional clients (whom I define as middle class or "pink" collar (as in they work a desk job but have limitations as to how much they can make)) are falling way behind those who own a business.
Those two used to be quite close about 10 years ago but I have noticed a significant widening of the income gap in the last 5 years.
Actually now that I re-think this ......... never mind I don't know how this relates to this thread. Sorry.
My wife has always told me that my sense of what the "average" Canadian family earns is way out of line and I guess she is right.
02-12-2014, 11:18 PM
#54
Race Car
02-13-2014, 12:40 AM
#57
Drifting
An 'average' Canadian with a T4 and simple investment probably will not need the service of a CA and can get the tax done with a computer program.
02-13-2014, 01:55 AM
#58
Burning Brakes
If my assumption is correct, canuck964 owns his own CA firm. He would most likely work with professionals and business owners with their own professional corporations, numbered companies, complicated investment portfolios....and requires help with payroll, financial statements...etc. This group is by no means 'average' and the yearly accounting fees alone can approach or even exceed what the 'average' Canadian makes.
An 'average' Canadian with a T4 and simple investment probably will not need the service of a CA and can get the tax done with a computer program.
An 'average' Canadian with a T4 and simple investment probably will not need the service of a CA and can get the tax done with a computer program.
myw - That's a nice collection of cars. I'm guessing you are doing ok. And I do know that the stated median Canadian family income is at around $70k but while I am definitely not even close to being a high income earner or wealthy, I do cater to a bunch of above average income earning Canadians. In fact the majority of my clients are in Palm Springs or Hawaii right now. They enjoy calling me from the golf courses there to inquire as to how the weather is back in Canada. I charge extra for those calls. I know I wont get any sympathy here but it is my opinion that the professional class in Canada is losing ground.
Again sorry I am taking this discussion away from the economic situation of the average Canadian.
Last edited by canuck964; 02-13-2014 at 02:29 AM.
02-13-2014, 02:10 AM
#59
Rennlist Member
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http://www.scmp.com/news/world/artic...=breaking_news
Canada’s government has announced that it is scrapping its controversial investor visa scheme, which has allowed waves of rich Hongkongers and mainland Chinese to immigrate since 1986.
The surprise announcement was made in Finance Minister Jim Flaherty’s budget, which was delivered to parliament in Ottawa on Tuesday afternoon local time. Tens of thousands of Chinese millionaires in the queue will reportedly have their applications scrapped and their application fees returned.
The decision came less than a week after the South China Morning Post published a series of investigative reports into the controversial 28-year-old scheme.
The Post revealed how the scheme spun out of control when Canada’s Hong Kong consulate was overwhelmed by a massive influx of applications from mainland millionaires. Applications to the scheme were frozen in 2012 as a result, as immigration staff struggled to clear the backlog.
“In recent years, significant progress has been made to better align the immigration system with Canada’s economic needs. The current immigrant investor program stands out as an exception to this success,” Flaherty’s budget papers said.
“For decades, it has significantly undervalued Canadian permanent residence, providing a pathway to Canadian citizenship in exchange for a guaranteed loan that is significantly less than our peer countries require,” it read.
Under the scheme, would-be migrants worth a minimum of C$1.6 million (HK$11.3 million) loaned the government C$800,000 interest free for a period of five years. The simplicity and low relative cost of the risk-free scheme made it the world’s most popular wealth migration program.
A parallel investor migration scheme run by Quebec still remains open. Many Chinese migrants use the alternative scheme to get into Canada via the French-speaking province and then move elsewhere in Canada. The federal government has previously pledged to crack down on what it said was a fraudulent practice.
Flaherty also announced yesterday the scrapping of a smaller economic migration scheme for entrepreneurs.
All told, 59,000 investor applicants and 7,000 entrepreneurs will have their applications returned, Postmedia News reported. Seventy per cent of the backlog, as of last January, was Chinese, suggesting more than 46,000 mainlanders will be affected by yesterday’s announcements.
The Immigrant Investor Program, which has brought about 185,000 migrants to Canada, was instrumental in facilitating an exodus of rich Hongkongers in the wake of the 1989 Tiananmen massacre and in the run-up to the handover. More than 30,000 Hongkongers immigrated using the scheme, though SAR applications have dwindled since 1997.
Canada’s government has announced that it is scrapping its controversial investor visa scheme, which has allowed waves of rich Hongkongers and mainland Chinese to immigrate since 1986.
The surprise announcement was made in Finance Minister Jim Flaherty’s budget, which was delivered to parliament in Ottawa on Tuesday afternoon local time. Tens of thousands of Chinese millionaires in the queue will reportedly have their applications scrapped and their application fees returned.
The decision came less than a week after the South China Morning Post published a series of investigative reports into the controversial 28-year-old scheme.
The Post revealed how the scheme spun out of control when Canada’s Hong Kong consulate was overwhelmed by a massive influx of applications from mainland millionaires. Applications to the scheme were frozen in 2012 as a result, as immigration staff struggled to clear the backlog.
“In recent years, significant progress has been made to better align the immigration system with Canada’s economic needs. The current immigrant investor program stands out as an exception to this success,” Flaherty’s budget papers said.
“For decades, it has significantly undervalued Canadian permanent residence, providing a pathway to Canadian citizenship in exchange for a guaranteed loan that is significantly less than our peer countries require,” it read.
Under the scheme, would-be migrants worth a minimum of C$1.6 million (HK$11.3 million) loaned the government C$800,000 interest free for a period of five years. The simplicity and low relative cost of the risk-free scheme made it the world’s most popular wealth migration program.
A parallel investor migration scheme run by Quebec still remains open. Many Chinese migrants use the alternative scheme to get into Canada via the French-speaking province and then move elsewhere in Canada. The federal government has previously pledged to crack down on what it said was a fraudulent practice.
Flaherty also announced yesterday the scrapping of a smaller economic migration scheme for entrepreneurs.
All told, 59,000 investor applicants and 7,000 entrepreneurs will have their applications returned, Postmedia News reported. Seventy per cent of the backlog, as of last January, was Chinese, suggesting more than 46,000 mainlanders will be affected by yesterday’s announcements.
The Immigrant Investor Program, which has brought about 185,000 migrants to Canada, was instrumental in facilitating an exodus of rich Hongkongers in the wake of the 1989 Tiananmen massacre and in the run-up to the handover. More than 30,000 Hongkongers immigrated using the scheme, though SAR applications have dwindled since 1997.
02-13-2014, 09:32 AM
#60
Instructor
I don't know how 2 people making 38k can afford to have a house, vehicles etc.
I am fortunate to live in a community where the house prices are not out this world (average house 250k) my house I paid off in 2010. Most of my vehicles are paid off (I have 4) and I don't make as much money as I did in pre2007 but it is penny pinching time for my family as well. I have my oldest son going to University in Sept
