Fantino's mad stunt racing law upheld
03-22-2010, 12:13 PM
#47
3rd Gear
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03-22-2010, 02:17 PM
#49
Race Director
If they actually set the speed limits on 400 series highways to 130, and based upon recommendations from engineers instead of politicians, I'd have no problem with supporting licence suspensions at 50+. The speed of traffic is in the 120-130 range for most anyway. If the speed limit is 100, when did 120 become acceptable? That grey area is a crock of **** and results in people doing 150 where they are only 20-30km/h over the accepted flow of traffic but 50km/h over the speed limit. Why not make a reasonable speed limit, put up signs to advise drivers of dangerous curves or intersections etc. and enforce speed limits. Install photo radar where there have been lots of fatalities and put up signs advising drivers of the location of photo radar as per Germany - not to raise revenue. Of course the above is too logical and cuts into the revenue stream for the province. Tell me its not a conflict of interest for the government and police.
If they actually set the speed limits as a result of safety concerns instead of revenue generation I'd support speed limits.
I have no problem with a speed limit of 40 in a residential area, 50 on a surface street etc. Side roads should be 100 and 400 series highways 130-150 especially in unpopulated areas. Enforce the rule that slower drivers stay right. Want to increase safety? How about getting jalopies off the road. A safety inspection that had teeth every couple of years would be a step in the right direction. Improve driver training to include avoidance techniques, a skidpad, threshold braking etc. Train our drivers so they know how to react during emergency situations.
I have a problem when speed limits are artificially reduced in certain areas just so the popo can collect more $$$. The 402 as mentioned above near Sarnia is a perfect example. It's morally wrong. In a school zone when kids are present, no problem. Fine away.
Fantino is a scumbag whose tactics remind me of a politician. A lot of hot air, not answering questions honestly and directly, two sets of rules and a bully. When oldtimers are getting off because 'they weren't racing' while a kid in his Honda Civic gets reamed, that's wrong. Call it whatever you like but it's still wrong.
The above is why I do not respect Fantino, the Ontario Government nor our those officers who enforce speed limits. And don't get me started on the whole line about "they are putting their lives on the line protecting us" crap. Many other professions result in more injuries and fatalities. Cops are cops because they want to be cops.
Police forces wonder why they are losing the respect of the population. When cars, homes and businesses are vandalized and burglered and the cops don't bother to show up to investigate yet are diligently manning their radar guns acting as glorifed tax collectors how can people not be fed up?
If they actually set the speed limits as a result of safety concerns instead of revenue generation I'd support speed limits.
I have no problem with a speed limit of 40 in a residential area, 50 on a surface street etc. Side roads should be 100 and 400 series highways 130-150 especially in unpopulated areas. Enforce the rule that slower drivers stay right. Want to increase safety? How about getting jalopies off the road. A safety inspection that had teeth every couple of years would be a step in the right direction. Improve driver training to include avoidance techniques, a skidpad, threshold braking etc. Train our drivers so they know how to react during emergency situations.
I have a problem when speed limits are artificially reduced in certain areas just so the popo can collect more $$$. The 402 as mentioned above near Sarnia is a perfect example. It's morally wrong. In a school zone when kids are present, no problem. Fine away.
Fantino is a scumbag whose tactics remind me of a politician. A lot of hot air, not answering questions honestly and directly, two sets of rules and a bully. When oldtimers are getting off because 'they weren't racing' while a kid in his Honda Civic gets reamed, that's wrong. Call it whatever you like but it's still wrong.
The above is why I do not respect Fantino, the Ontario Government nor our those officers who enforce speed limits. And don't get me started on the whole line about "they are putting their lives on the line protecting us" crap. Many other professions result in more injuries and fatalities. Cops are cops because they want to be cops.
Police forces wonder why they are losing the respect of the population. When cars, homes and businesses are vandalized and burglered and the cops don't bother to show up to investigate yet are diligently manning their radar guns acting as glorifed tax collectors how can people not be fed up?
03-22-2010, 03:30 PM
#50
Drifting
From a publication reviewing speeding worldwide:
Many a fortune has been lost car racing. But since 2007, that old adage has applied to Ontario street racers, too. Initially imposed to combat what the government said was the "organized crime" of street racing, anyone caught driving 50 km/h over the speed limit in the Canadian province -- even if the driver is in the only car on a back road -- can be fined $10,000, have their car impounded on the spot, and spend up to six months in jail -- making it one of the most expensive speeding tickets in North America. Worse yet, there is no right to appeal or to be heard in a court. Like the Sheriff Buford T. Justice character from the Smokey and the Bandit movies, if you're caught driving 50 km/h or more above the speed limit, Ontario police officers are the judge and the jury at the side of the road.
03-22-2010, 10:59 PM
#51
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Can you provide the source data from the engineers?
Can you explain why this would make a difference to you?
Have you ever met a politician that you liked? That you thought represented you and your interests in a fair, ethical manner as well as the general population?
03-23-2010, 12:51 AM
#52
Race Director
Lots of good info here: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/speedlimits.html
What is stated on that website is what I firmly believe in.
Thoughts well presented: http://www.wheels.ca/article/254306
Not off the top of my head no. The fact that the rate of the majority of traffic is 120 km/h or so on the 401 clearly illustrates that the majority of the population thinks the 100km/h speed limit is too low. Is a law that is not followed by the majority of the population just?
Set limits to the speed 85% of the population drives a particular stretch of road. The 401 would be 120-130. I'd be ok with that.
See website above and this: http://www.civ.utoronto.ca/sect/trae...mits-study.pdf
How can it not? The speed limit has a better chance of being set at a realistic level rather than the rather aribitrary limit we have today. 100km/h on the 401 in the middle of nowhere is ridiculously slow. It is ignored constantly. Why not have a limit that is actually representative of the driving patterns of 85% of the population? In other jurisdictions actually increasing the speed limit has resulted in a lower rate of fatalities (Montana, Spain, France etc.) while lowering speed limits has actually increased fatality rates.
Use photo radar as a tool and promote the hell out of it to slow people down in areas (sharp curves perhaps?) which have historically had more fatalities than similarly travelled roadways and/or intersections.
The emphasis is on safety - not revenue collection.
Now that's twisting my words now isn't it. In many states the speed limit is 70 or 75 mph. In Ontario the speed limit was lowered in the 70s from 75mph (roughly 120km/h) as a consequence of the fuel crisis.
Germany has higher speed limits on the autobahn and there remain some unrestricted sections. Fatality rates are less than Canada and the US.
Again, refer back to the concept of 85th percentile illustrated in the uk website.
There have been a few but not many. Unfortunately spin gets votes. Fact doesn't always prevail.
I'm not saying we increase school zone limits to 90. I am saying that on 400 series divided highways the speed limit should be raised to a level actually representative of the way people drive.
Some more interesting food for thought:
http://www.wheels.ca/article/254306
http://www.wheels.ca/Columns/article/783601
http://www.wheels.ca/Specials/article/781920
http://www.wheels.ca/Specials/article/781920
http://www.wheels.ca/Specials/article/781920
What is stated on that website is what I firmly believe in.
Thoughts well presented: http://www.wheels.ca/article/254306
Not off the top of my head no. The fact that the rate of the majority of traffic is 120 km/h or so on the 401 clearly illustrates that the majority of the population thinks the 100km/h speed limit is too low. Is a law that is not followed by the majority of the population just?
Set limits to the speed 85% of the population drives a particular stretch of road. The 401 would be 120-130. I'd be ok with that.
See website above and this: http://www.civ.utoronto.ca/sect/trae...mits-study.pdf
How can it not? The speed limit has a better chance of being set at a realistic level rather than the rather aribitrary limit we have today. 100km/h on the 401 in the middle of nowhere is ridiculously slow. It is ignored constantly. Why not have a limit that is actually representative of the driving patterns of 85% of the population? In other jurisdictions actually increasing the speed limit has resulted in a lower rate of fatalities (Montana, Spain, France etc.) while lowering speed limits has actually increased fatality rates.
Use photo radar as a tool and promote the hell out of it to slow people down in areas (sharp curves perhaps?) which have historically had more fatalities than similarly travelled roadways and/or intersections.
The emphasis is on safety - not revenue collection.
Germany has higher speed limits on the autobahn and there remain some unrestricted sections. Fatality rates are less than Canada and the US.
Again, refer back to the concept of 85th percentile illustrated in the uk website.
I'm not saying we increase school zone limits to 90. I am saying that on 400 series divided highways the speed limit should be raised to a level actually representative of the way people drive.
Some more interesting food for thought:
http://www.wheels.ca/article/254306
http://www.wheels.ca/Columns/article/783601
http://www.wheels.ca/Specials/article/781920
http://www.wheels.ca/Specials/article/781920
http://www.wheels.ca/Specials/article/781920
03-23-2010, 02:24 AM
#53
Drifting
http://www.civ.utoronto.ca/sect/trae...mits-study.pdf
The speed that the 401 was designed for was a speed up to 130kph. In fact up to 1976 the speed was 112kph (70mph) and this on bias ply tyred land yachts of the era. The engineers in the above study basically prove that lowering speed actually kills more people - fact. Montana proved it as have other jurisdictions. Fantino and his 'fetish' for reduced speeds in fact endangers MORE people - not less.
The speed that the 401 was designed for was a speed up to 130kph. In fact up to 1976 the speed was 112kph (70mph) and this on bias ply tyred land yachts of the era. The engineers in the above study basically prove that lowering speed actually kills more people - fact. Montana proved it as have other jurisdictions. Fantino and his 'fetish' for reduced speeds in fact endangers MORE people - not less.
03-23-2010, 02:48 PM
#54
Are there any reports out there that suggest that the current conditions of our roads in Ontario (Toronto specifically) are more of a risk to causing accidents (either side streets or highways) than speeding ?
I certainly believe that there must be a significant contributing factor of road condition when considering safety (swerving around a pothole/crater at any speed can be dangerous). Fix the roads, educate/enforce with drivers with all aspects of driving responsibility, and set reasonable speeds (yeah I still remember cruising on the 401 as a youngin lying behind the rear back seat rest of my Dad's VW beetle with no seat belt, and no booster seat [i.e. right above the engine] at speeds closer to 70 mph - okay going down a hill with no headwind).
Perhaps the $60 per vehicle (although I can physically only drive one car at a time) that I am discriminantly priviledged to pay as a "Toronto" resident/driver may be put to use in the above concerns, rather than spending it on another study to support income over common sense legislation, or a 30% salary increase for some of Fantino's favourite tax collectors, or even a new toy for his Arsenal of "Look what I've got to control the masses". Maybe we should all take a day off when the G8/G20 summit arrives in Ontario/Toronto, and actually drive the absolute speed limit (across all available lanes of course) while our politicians, gofers, world leaders, delegates, news media, etc are trying to manuever from event to event. We can demonstrate how obedient and "safe" we, as Ontarians, are in the eyes of the world and make Fantino and legislators proud of us.
I certainly believe that there must be a significant contributing factor of road condition when considering safety (swerving around a pothole/crater at any speed can be dangerous). Fix the roads, educate/enforce with drivers with all aspects of driving responsibility, and set reasonable speeds (yeah I still remember cruising on the 401 as a youngin lying behind the rear back seat rest of my Dad's VW beetle with no seat belt, and no booster seat [i.e. right above the engine] at speeds closer to 70 mph - okay going down a hill with no headwind).
Perhaps the $60 per vehicle (although I can physically only drive one car at a time) that I am discriminantly priviledged to pay as a "Toronto" resident/driver may be put to use in the above concerns, rather than spending it on another study to support income over common sense legislation, or a 30% salary increase for some of Fantino's favourite tax collectors, or even a new toy for his Arsenal of "Look what I've got to control the masses". Maybe we should all take a day off when the G8/G20 summit arrives in Ontario/Toronto, and actually drive the absolute speed limit (across all available lanes of course) while our politicians, gofers, world leaders, delegates, news media, etc are trying to manuever from event to event. We can demonstrate how obedient and "safe" we, as Ontarians, are in the eyes of the world and make Fantino and legislators proud of us.
03-23-2010, 05:49 PM
#55
Drifting
Bahama, it's not against the law to drive 'under' the speed limit you know. *wink* Wait...isn't that what we're doing most of the time now in rush hour?
Just saw another (weekly) accident today - in that 'green scam' called the HOV lane system. They refuse to release the numbers - I know several groups are trying to wedge the door open - but so far they are keeping what someone from the Mississauga paper says was a secret audit done of the HOV lane system and it was filed under the S for Shredder they heard as it didn't fit the 'right speak'. You know and I know that if that study showed the HOV are really the greatest thing since slided bread it would have been splashed all over Pravda yesterday. Oops, I meant the Star.
1. More carbon being burned and sent into the environment and energy wasted while everyone but a few creep along at 20K instead of fourth lane being used.
2. The amount of people using the HOV lanes (2 or more) has not increased to any great extent and in fact observers say more people seem to be using it off peak times when traffic is light when going out at night - not the intended purpose.
3. The avg speed would increase by a factor of two as the extra lane is responsible for slowing traffic down across all lanes while people are trying to exit or enter the forth lane. The total gas saved allowing ALL cars into this forth lane be a factor of 1000x greater then the total number of extra passengers in these HOV lanes would use if they were on their own in those few extra vehicles.
4. Our tax dollars paid for a lane which is used by less then 2% of the other taxpayers using the other three lanes.
5. Suspiciously absent is the accident reports 'specific' to this extra lane - they are lumped in with the area totals. However, most witnesses report horrendous accidents when one vehicle has to come to a stop in a live lane attempting to merger into the third lane that traffic is stopped in and is hit from behind by a vehicle going the speed limit (or higher). Secondary impacts result as the cars are pushed into other vehicles.
Added to this are the vehicles who want to enter the HOV lane and finally make it into the third lane and have to accelerate from zero to at least 100K in order to merge with traffic coming up behind in the HOV lane. Sometimes they are successful and a lot of the time they are not. I've personally seen a car spinning it's tires in the rain as the driver panicked attempting to get up to speed and the driver behind had to take to the ditch to avoid hitting this car as they were probably not looking far enough down the road.
HOV Lanes = FAIL
Another Dalton waste of time to placate the green masses.
But just like in the movie Animal House where that ****** National Guard member played by Kevin Bacon is shouting, ‘All is well, all is well’ as people are panicking and running away from the riot – this Government is doing much the same about pretty much everything they touch.
Just saw another (weekly) accident today - in that 'green scam' called the HOV lane system. They refuse to release the numbers - I know several groups are trying to wedge the door open - but so far they are keeping what someone from the Mississauga paper says was a secret audit done of the HOV lane system and it was filed under the S for Shredder they heard as it didn't fit the 'right speak'. You know and I know that if that study showed the HOV are really the greatest thing since slided bread it would have been splashed all over Pravda yesterday. Oops, I meant the Star.
1. More carbon being burned and sent into the environment and energy wasted while everyone but a few creep along at 20K instead of fourth lane being used.
2. The amount of people using the HOV lanes (2 or more) has not increased to any great extent and in fact observers say more people seem to be using it off peak times when traffic is light when going out at night - not the intended purpose.
3. The avg speed would increase by a factor of two as the extra lane is responsible for slowing traffic down across all lanes while people are trying to exit or enter the forth lane. The total gas saved allowing ALL cars into this forth lane be a factor of 1000x greater then the total number of extra passengers in these HOV lanes would use if they were on their own in those few extra vehicles.
4. Our tax dollars paid for a lane which is used by less then 2% of the other taxpayers using the other three lanes.
5. Suspiciously absent is the accident reports 'specific' to this extra lane - they are lumped in with the area totals. However, most witnesses report horrendous accidents when one vehicle has to come to a stop in a live lane attempting to merger into the third lane that traffic is stopped in and is hit from behind by a vehicle going the speed limit (or higher). Secondary impacts result as the cars are pushed into other vehicles.
Added to this are the vehicles who want to enter the HOV lane and finally make it into the third lane and have to accelerate from zero to at least 100K in order to merge with traffic coming up behind in the HOV lane. Sometimes they are successful and a lot of the time they are not. I've personally seen a car spinning it's tires in the rain as the driver panicked attempting to get up to speed and the driver behind had to take to the ditch to avoid hitting this car as they were probably not looking far enough down the road.
HOV Lanes = FAIL
Another Dalton waste of time to placate the green masses.
But just like in the movie Animal House where that ****** National Guard member played by Kevin Bacon is shouting, ‘All is well, all is well’ as people are panicking and running away from the riot – this Government is doing much the same about pretty much everything they touch.
03-24-2010, 08:29 AM
#59
Ah, ya that HOV lane is a ridiculous idea. You get into the lane seeing it all clear, and next thing you know you're doing 90kph behind some idiot and it's illegal to get out of the lane until a designated "switching zone"... not only that, but it's on the left side, which should be the "fast lane"... so you have people in buses and minivans crossing how many lanes of traffic to get to the HOV lane, and then crossing traffic again when they're getting off the highway.
I'd like to slap whoever made that decision.
I'd like to slap whoever made that decision.
03-24-2010, 10:20 AM
#60
Drifting
Ah, ya that HOV lane is a ridiculous idea. You get into the lane seeing it all clear, and next thing you know you're doing 90kph behind some idiot and it's illegal to get out of the lane until a designated "switching zone"... not only that, but it's on the left side, which should be the "fast lane"... so you have people in buses and minivans crossing how many lanes of traffic to get to the HOV lane, and then crossing traffic again when they're getting off the highway.
I'd like to slap whoever made that decision.
I'd like to slap whoever made that decision.