Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
Rennlist Member
I dunno Paul. Not nearly as nice as a boxster comparing with both the roofs down. On the 996 and 997 you have to **** around with a manually installed windstop. Butt ugly with it too IMO. The Boxster nestles you in under the wind naturally, you get two boots and better balance. Pity you don't get as much power though.
You've no doubt driven both too. If you wanted open air for sub $60k which way would you go?
Boxster S offers amazing bang for buck IMO.
Thanks for watching out. I'm trying to keep an open mind.
You've no doubt driven both too. If you wanted open air for sub $60k which way would you go?
Boxster S offers amazing bang for buck IMO.
Thanks for watching out. I'm trying to keep an open mind.
Not sure I would do a stock 996 in cab, but I would seriously consider a C4S. Helen's car is fab and the C4S is a very high spec car. I doubt you would find a manual though.
My only advise is to learn to love the Cayenne until Lola comes back and just take your time. Don't settle for something you don't love - you have the luxury of time and the C2 for your Pcar fix. Put your feelers out with the dealers and Razzo as the car you want is probably hiding in someone's garage ready to be traded onto a new car...........
I think the RS60 is seriously you, but it is more money...........(but you only live once and your kids will spend it if you don't).
Instructor
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New Zealand
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Re the plates - I've asked them to stick the plates on with double sided tape. Not keen to drill into the CF, and if I lose the odd plate they are cheap to replace. It will wear "MCL P1" as a plate.
Rennlist Member
I do remember, but half the package (only 2 x 214's) hinders the overall performance and tire balance. Yes car turned in, but didn't power out without spinning the rear wheels, you may recall me whinging about not getting the power down and wanting to buy an LSD if you look about 400 pages back.......
The only way to improve was to soften front shocks and stiffen rear's to 9 on the settings. This dropped my times from 18's to low 17's instantly......
The 214's on the front dropped the times from 16.8's to 16.2's. I'm sure 214's on the back and finally resolving the rear suspension/sway bar settings would easily find another 3-4/10th's for a 15.??
I wasn't a huge fan of 221's as I personally found they went off quite quickly (i.e. you get 4 track days with the first 2 being noticably better).
My fav's are still the old Bridgestones. They lasted longer and my times where no quicker on the 214's in the C3??
Whereas I went through a set of 221's on the SITT, and then another set of fronts with an RSG track day and 2 x PCNZ sprints.
Did we ever get a consensus on the Nitto's (that aren't road legal) and how quick they where in the tire line up??
The only way to improve was to soften front shocks and stiffen rear's to 9 on the settings. This dropped my times from 18's to low 17's instantly......
The 214's on the front dropped the times from 16.8's to 16.2's. I'm sure 214's on the back and finally resolving the rear suspension/sway bar settings would easily find another 3-4/10th's for a 15.??
I wasn't a huge fan of 221's as I personally found they went off quite quickly (i.e. you get 4 track days with the first 2 being noticably better).
My fav's are still the old Bridgestones. They lasted longer and my times where no quicker on the 214's in the C3??
Whereas I went through a set of 221's on the SITT, and then another set of fronts with an RSG track day and 2 x PCNZ sprints.
Did we ever get a consensus on the Nitto's (that aren't road legal) and how quick they where in the tire line up??
Rennlist Member
This is what I did for my Swiss plates in Europe and never lost a plate even at 250kmph speeds on the french and italian motorways system so I dont think you will have any issues there....
Pro
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I know 924's/994's/968's dont get much love on this thread, but these two early ones seem like bargains:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=819534657
&
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=819408195
Cheap entry into Porsche ownership, and 80's **** styles as well.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=819534657
&
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=819408195
Cheap entry into Porsche ownership, and 80's **** styles as well.
Drifting
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Dougie - there is no right or wrong answer mate - it's just what makes you happy, and we all know that Jan and you both like the boxster and open aired motoring. Not sure I would do a stock 996 in cab, but I would seriously consider a C4S. Helen's car is fab and the C4S is a very high spec car. I doubt you would find a manual though. My only advise is to learn to love the Cayenne until Lola comes back and just take your time. Don't settle for something you don't love - you have the luxury of time and the C2 for your Pcar fix. Put your feelers out with the dealers and Razzo as the car you want is probably hiding in someone's garage ready to be traded onto a new car........... I think the RS60 is seriously you, but it is more money...........(but you only live once and your kids will spend it if you don't).
RS60 is getting closer to Boxster Spider spec but not lightened, 15hp less, bucket seats, sports exhaust, fancy suspension, full leather luxury BUT a roof that actually works. Rarity may reduce the rate of depreciation although I don't really care about that. If I'm not convincing anyone else I'm convincing myself :-P
Rennlist Member
I know 924's/994's/968's dont get much love on this thread, but these two early ones seem like bargains:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=819534657
&
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=819408195
Cheap entry into Porsche ownership, and 80's **** styles as well.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=819534657
&
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=819408195
Cheap entry into Porsche ownership, and 80's **** styles as well.
Rennlist Member
It was a long list, but the biggest contributor to time taken was the compression test. Lots of engine ancillaries need to come off to get to the spark plug holes. I suppose it's easy to say it's a needless expense, but Richard won't lie awake at night wondering whether it's a strong engine or not and let's face it the cost of rebuilding one would be far greater.
Rennlist Member
There's plenty of 944 love - or correctly 951/952 love in the US & here in the UK.
The platform is technically so good that as Jon Mitchell on has commented on the TIPEC forum - the 951 has its nicest balance as road & trackday car at around 400 - 420 bhp (flywheel) & 400 lb/ft (flywheel).
Traction becomes more challenging beyond these figures & the car has to become appropriately more "hardcore", reducing its versatility.
Modern turbos like the Garrett GTX series, improved intake manifolds & heads, lighter pistons & rods, better standalone ECUs & indeed dry sumping have all allowed the 951/952 to be transformed.
Indeed the Buchanan's (Australia) turbocharged S2 (road car with full interior & no cage) on Formula R rubber has the legs on slick-shod & "warmed-over" 997 GT2RS in a straight line & can keep it in sight around a lap - not too shabby!
The platform is technically so good that as Jon Mitchell on has commented on the TIPEC forum - the 951 has its nicest balance as road & trackday car at around 400 - 420 bhp (flywheel) & 400 lb/ft (flywheel).
Traction becomes more challenging beyond these figures & the car has to become appropriately more "hardcore", reducing its versatility.
Modern turbos like the Garrett GTX series, improved intake manifolds & heads, lighter pistons & rods, better standalone ECUs & indeed dry sumping have all allowed the 951/952 to be transformed.
Indeed the Buchanan's (Australia) turbocharged S2 (road car with full interior & no cage) on Formula R rubber has the legs on slick-shod & "warmed-over" 997 GT2RS in a straight line & can keep it in sight around a lap - not too shabby!
The answer is aero. A big fixed wing over the rear of your 993 with some basic cannards at the front will save you up to 1s a lap and make the car much more stable under trail braking in high speed corners (T10). A dual action LSD will not make much difference other than a little more braking stability before T1 and getting the power down a fraction earlier in T5 etc The aero kit will cost you less than a decent LSD plus install and give you twice the time saving....the tyres need more force on them at the rear. The 911 rotates when the rear lets go. More downforce on rear means better traction and stability...
I'm looking at fitting a set of Recaro PP's with Recaro sliders but Southbound mounts. Just got off the phone with David at Southbound and he seems genuinely knowledgeable about the vagaries and history of Porsche interiors - including aftermarket solutions.
Does anyone here have any experience/advice regarding the compliance and/or insurance of replacing oem with aftermarket seats?
Does anyone here have any experience/advice regarding the compliance and/or insurance of replacing oem with aftermarket seats?
Rennlist Member
I'm looking at fitting a set of Recaro PP's with Recaro sliders but Southbound mounts. Just got off the phone with David at Southbound and he seems genuinely knowledgeable about the vagaries and history of Porsche interiors - including aftermarket solutions.
Does anyone here have any experience/advice regarding the compliance and/or insurance of replacing oem with aftermarket seats?
Does anyone here have any experience/advice regarding the compliance and/or insurance of replacing oem with aftermarket seats?
Rennlist Member
...for the '44 lovers...
http://www.tipec.net/_forums/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=17956
"I have a lot of experience of building 944 turbo's with silly amounts of power in 2.5, 2.8, 3.0 and 3.2 configurations.
I never believed that a car could be "over engined" until about 8 years ago when I experienced a 944 turbo 3.2 which was able to spin its rear tyres at 120 mph if you hit the throttle hard..
The 944 turbo seems to be at its best with about 400 bhp and 400 ft-lbs of torque, You can get 420 BHP from a 2.5 engine without going too crazy with 400 ft-lbs of torque without going too mad.. and this works well.
We have had up to 700 ft-lbs of torque from the 3.2's, but this is WAY to much for the chassis, unless you go for traction control, but even with TC, the problem is stability, if you get the car slightly out of shape, even 1% of wheel spin which many TC systems allow, could see you in a hedge... and that fear has you constantly backed off from full power, which results in a slower car in reality.
The main benefit from a larger capacity engine in a 944 turbo comes from the off boost performance and faster spooling turbo with the same turbo and peak BHP target, which can make the car pull like it has a massive V8 installed.
Ricks car had good BHP on the rolling road, but it lacked torque in a big way, mainly because the turbo was too big for the application.
Not a fan of the steam kits, it seems to solve a problem which really does not exist in my experience, but it also introduces a new weak spot.. Someone at NASA once said "With every stage of complexity you add, you loose reliability" and that same person also came up with some interesting formulas which are used even today to predict reliability of complex assemblies. So the Mantra is simplify for reliability... Adding a steam kit adds risks, such as a new hose to fail, a fastener which could corrode its threads in the head due to a sacrificial effect etc.
The darton liners is also another example of adding complexity to solve a problem which does not exist.. With a 104mm bore block, such as a 2.7 or S2 block you will not have a problem with bore strength, and if you want very high rpms, then you might want to close the top deck, but otherwise, unless you run into detonation, you do not need steel liners, and adding those liners may cause problems of differential rates of expansion and sacrificial corrosion.
Another problem is that the 2.5 block has some issues with windage which are addressed in the 2.7 and 3.0 blocks.
our 3.2's used a custom made liner with a nickel ceramic coating, we only went this route as we needed a 108mm bore, which would have weakened the standard bore a little further than we were comfortable with, so like anything in engineering, the steel liners were a compromise in one form, to overcome a risk in another.
We are building two 3.0 968 turbos at the moment, one is a dyno queen, one is being built as a GT car to cross continents, the second car will probably be running low boost and only aiming for 350 to 400 bhp to make it super reliable, as the owner wants it to last his lifetime and use it on long road trips while looking in every way like an original 968 Turbo S."
_________________
Clean it, wax it, love it, ENJOY it... then fix it
Jon Mitchell
Independent Porsche Specialists
Technical Advisors to TIPEC
http://www.jmgporsche.co.uk
https://twitter.com/JMG_PORSCHE
http://www.facebook.com/jmgporsche
http://www.tipec.net/_forums/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=17956
"I have a lot of experience of building 944 turbo's with silly amounts of power in 2.5, 2.8, 3.0 and 3.2 configurations.
I never believed that a car could be "over engined" until about 8 years ago when I experienced a 944 turbo 3.2 which was able to spin its rear tyres at 120 mph if you hit the throttle hard..
The 944 turbo seems to be at its best with about 400 bhp and 400 ft-lbs of torque, You can get 420 BHP from a 2.5 engine without going too crazy with 400 ft-lbs of torque without going too mad.. and this works well.
We have had up to 700 ft-lbs of torque from the 3.2's, but this is WAY to much for the chassis, unless you go for traction control, but even with TC, the problem is stability, if you get the car slightly out of shape, even 1% of wheel spin which many TC systems allow, could see you in a hedge... and that fear has you constantly backed off from full power, which results in a slower car in reality.
The main benefit from a larger capacity engine in a 944 turbo comes from the off boost performance and faster spooling turbo with the same turbo and peak BHP target, which can make the car pull like it has a massive V8 installed.
Ricks car had good BHP on the rolling road, but it lacked torque in a big way, mainly because the turbo was too big for the application.
Not a fan of the steam kits, it seems to solve a problem which really does not exist in my experience, but it also introduces a new weak spot.. Someone at NASA once said "With every stage of complexity you add, you loose reliability" and that same person also came up with some interesting formulas which are used even today to predict reliability of complex assemblies. So the Mantra is simplify for reliability... Adding a steam kit adds risks, such as a new hose to fail, a fastener which could corrode its threads in the head due to a sacrificial effect etc.
The darton liners is also another example of adding complexity to solve a problem which does not exist.. With a 104mm bore block, such as a 2.7 or S2 block you will not have a problem with bore strength, and if you want very high rpms, then you might want to close the top deck, but otherwise, unless you run into detonation, you do not need steel liners, and adding those liners may cause problems of differential rates of expansion and sacrificial corrosion.
Another problem is that the 2.5 block has some issues with windage which are addressed in the 2.7 and 3.0 blocks.
our 3.2's used a custom made liner with a nickel ceramic coating, we only went this route as we needed a 108mm bore, which would have weakened the standard bore a little further than we were comfortable with, so like anything in engineering, the steel liners were a compromise in one form, to overcome a risk in another.
We are building two 3.0 968 turbos at the moment, one is a dyno queen, one is being built as a GT car to cross continents, the second car will probably be running low boost and only aiming for 350 to 400 bhp to make it super reliable, as the owner wants it to last his lifetime and use it on long road trips while looking in every way like an original 968 Turbo S."
_________________
Clean it, wax it, love it, ENJOY it... then fix it
Jon Mitchell
Independent Porsche Specialists
Technical Advisors to TIPEC
http://www.jmgporsche.co.uk
https://twitter.com/JMG_PORSCHE
http://www.facebook.com/jmgporsche
Rennlist Member
...in the spirit of the season here's one last tasty morsel for the '44 lovers out there - this "Pistonheads" comment comes from Baz Hart, owner of Hartech:
http://www.hartech.org/
The thread:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...?t=638138&i=-5
"It is an interesting comparison and when I visited the Porsche factory some years ago - the chief engineer when asked which was the best car Porsche ever made - replied the 944 turbo.
Having driven all models for years - I almost agree except that slight lag sometimes catches you out when overtaking and becomes irritating - and if you tune them up (which is easy) the pick up breaks the rear wheel traction and limits resulting performance - apart from which the car is brilliant.
That is why we built a 3 litre version to try and provide the bottom end torque that the S2 has and reduce the ****** when the turbo power is delivered and although we have a little more work to do - this outcome has already been achieved. What a great car the 968 Turbo S would have been in mass production!"
Baz
http://www.hartech.org/
The thread:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...?t=638138&i=-5
"It is an interesting comparison and when I visited the Porsche factory some years ago - the chief engineer when asked which was the best car Porsche ever made - replied the 944 turbo.
Having driven all models for years - I almost agree except that slight lag sometimes catches you out when overtaking and becomes irritating - and if you tune them up (which is easy) the pick up breaks the rear wheel traction and limits resulting performance - apart from which the car is brilliant.
That is why we built a 3 litre version to try and provide the bottom end torque that the S2 has and reduce the ****** when the turbo power is delivered and although we have a little more work to do - this outcome has already been achieved. What a great car the 968 Turbo S would have been in mass production!"
Baz