What do you consider to Hot for Tracking
07-08-2017, 11:08 PM
#1
What do you consider to Hot for Tracking
I have been doing a lot of track days this Summer to get to speed for my Cup. I missed this weekend as we had to pull the trans to get a seal done. It was 107 in Fontana at Auto Club Speedway. My coach went with some of our other regulars and part of me said, this would have been too hot?
Last several track days I did were 100 - 110 + degrees. I just started driving the Cup and love it. But, now that I am ready to ring a bit more out of her I wonder what is acceptable and safe. I have an event at Laguna in early August and it will be a max high of about 70.
I am getting set up with tire temp sensors, but they are not installed yet. I have heard on a speedway like Fontana that blowouts are possible when on the oval. That is not something I want to tempt without my data from my tire temp sensors. The Pirelli slicks we run like a temp of around 170 -210. If the outside temp is 110, the track surface has got to be crazy hot.
What do you all think is acceptable for track temps without tempting fate?
Last several track days I did were 100 - 110 + degrees. I just started driving the Cup and love it. But, now that I am ready to ring a bit more out of her I wonder what is acceptable and safe. I have an event at Laguna in early August and it will be a max high of about 70.
I am getting set up with tire temp sensors, but they are not installed yet. I have heard on a speedway like Fontana that blowouts are possible when on the oval. That is not something I want to tempt without my data from my tire temp sensors. The Pirelli slicks we run like a temp of around 170 -210. If the outside temp is 110, the track surface has got to be crazy hot.
What do you all think is acceptable for track temps without tempting fate?
07-08-2017, 11:24 PM
#2
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Assuming, you are running a cool suit AND start hydrating 2-3 days before your event AND hydrate during the event 100+ deg F temps in a relatively dry climate are no issue BUT you need to listen to your body. I personally find it much more difficult to stay hydrated at high humidity, even at lower temps.
Pirelli slicks don't fail because they get too hot or are over-inflated. They fail in most instances because they were damaged during times of under-inflation. It is very important to learn to get them up to temperature without damaging them. I run IR tire temp sensors with live displays and they are a great tool not only to set-up your car but also to monitor the tire warm-up phase.
Just reading through your post again, you will find live peak tire temperatures to be much much higher than what you are measuring in the pits, even at relatively low ambient temperatures. At Daytona we run hot tire pressures 3-4 psi above normal given the higher loads.
Pirelli slicks don't fail because they get too hot or are over-inflated. They fail in most instances because they were damaged during times of under-inflation. It is very important to learn to get them up to temperature without damaging them. I run IR tire temp sensors with live displays and they are a great tool not only to set-up your car but also to monitor the tire warm-up phase.
Just reading through your post again, you will find live peak tire temperatures to be much much higher than what you are measuring in the pits, even at relatively low ambient temperatures. At Daytona we run hot tire pressures 3-4 psi above normal given the higher loads.
07-09-2017, 11:56 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
In addition to what Frank said, if you're not used to strenuous physical activity in extreme heat...tread lightly. It's much easier to get much more fatigued much quicker, and get way behind the car, well before you even realize it when it's really hot
07-09-2017, 12:20 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
You can keep cool, but the car...
needs to be looked after. I have driven Cali Speedway on a number of occasions, I have never seen a cool day there..typically I run with a SoCal track Club in September, bloody hot. I focus on hydration and do have a 24 qt. Cool Shirt reservoir.
In my opinion, the engine needs to be monitored by somebody of some "thing", and you'll be too busy to be visually checking the gauges...great solution is an AiM MXL-2 system digital dash. In addition to a shift light, and all the other features such as a digital tach, best lap time of the session, predictive lap time, you'll have at least four channels for alarms, that you or your AiM guy set. Water temp, oil temp, oil pressure, etc. On a late model car, all of this data is available from the vehicle's electronics, CAM BUS data.
You can't miss an alarm, the face of the dash goes red, and it pulses. The cost is $1,999 + installation, and while you are at it, might as well get AiM's integrated SmartyCam.
You can get infra red tire ramp monitors integrated into the system, that would be four (4) inputs...the AiM may need to be expanded, at an extra cost, to accept these incremental inputs
"I have an event at Laguna in early August and it will be a max high of about 70." On paper it may be 70, but it can get hot there...the track is very narrow, and "busy", and you'll have few opportunities to glance at gauges.
"I have heard on a speedway like Fontana that blowouts are possible when on the oval." Hoosier has a bulletin that warns of the potential dangers of oval tracks such as Cali Speedway and Daytona. They suggest less camber on the outside of the car, the right side at Cali Speedway, and running higher tire pressure on that side as well." Don't know about Pirelli slicks..they may be impervious, but I doubt it.
"That is not something I want to tempt without my data from my tire temp sensors." The AiM dash will do all the monitoring for you as well as incorporating the data into the data logger software for later review.
"What do you all think is acceptable for track temps without tempting fate?" If you are running on a track at speed, and assuming you want to wring X potential performance out of the car, you will be tempting fate, regardless of the temperature.
There are numerous shops around SoCall that are AiM focused, one being Dan's Aspesi's Speed Gallery in North Hollywood. He supports a stable of race cars. He also has a guy that can install your AiM System, and in addition, will come to the track with you to teach you how to interpret the AiM data from AiM's Race Studio 3.
If you are running with POC at Laguna in early August, I'll see you there. I'll have my AiM MXL-2 and SmartyCam ready to go.
In my opinion, the engine needs to be monitored by somebody of some "thing", and you'll be too busy to be visually checking the gauges...great solution is an AiM MXL-2 system digital dash. In addition to a shift light, and all the other features such as a digital tach, best lap time of the session, predictive lap time, you'll have at least four channels for alarms, that you or your AiM guy set. Water temp, oil temp, oil pressure, etc. On a late model car, all of this data is available from the vehicle's electronics, CAM BUS data.
You can't miss an alarm, the face of the dash goes red, and it pulses. The cost is $1,999 + installation, and while you are at it, might as well get AiM's integrated SmartyCam.
You can get infra red tire ramp monitors integrated into the system, that would be four (4) inputs...the AiM may need to be expanded, at an extra cost, to accept these incremental inputs
"I have an event at Laguna in early August and it will be a max high of about 70." On paper it may be 70, but it can get hot there...the track is very narrow, and "busy", and you'll have few opportunities to glance at gauges.
"I have heard on a speedway like Fontana that blowouts are possible when on the oval." Hoosier has a bulletin that warns of the potential dangers of oval tracks such as Cali Speedway and Daytona. They suggest less camber on the outside of the car, the right side at Cali Speedway, and running higher tire pressure on that side as well." Don't know about Pirelli slicks..they may be impervious, but I doubt it.
"That is not something I want to tempt without my data from my tire temp sensors." The AiM dash will do all the monitoring for you as well as incorporating the data into the data logger software for later review.
"What do you all think is acceptable for track temps without tempting fate?" If you are running on a track at speed, and assuming you want to wring X potential performance out of the car, you will be tempting fate, regardless of the temperature.
There are numerous shops around SoCall that are AiM focused, one being Dan's Aspesi's Speed Gallery in North Hollywood. He supports a stable of race cars. He also has a guy that can install your AiM System, and in addition, will come to the track with you to teach you how to interpret the AiM data from AiM's Race Studio 3.
If you are running with POC at Laguna in early August, I'll see you there. I'll have my AiM MXL-2 and SmartyCam ready to go.
07-09-2017, 01:53 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Last year I raced at Barber end of July in the NASA race advertised as "Hotter 'n Hell" event.
It was. Ambient +95F, trackside and paddock circa 120F It was ok in the car moving with coolsuit etc but packing up mid Sunday pm was miserable. A couple of times my mechanic looked like he was about to collapse so I told him to go sit in the AC. And with a Cup the engine and trans will be at or beyond max temps with double yellows, Reds, Blacks and usual on track and gridding delays.
Even if it all goes right and you don't have a mechanical that requires time under the car (we did- molded plastic rad fitting blew under heat and stress) it can be less than fun. I told him that if I ever mentioned doing it again to talk me out of it. It'll be a long layoff through July and Aug but not when I think about the alternative. It's hard on the car, the drover and last but not least, the crew.
Good time to work on the car in an ac'd garage.
As always YMMV.
It was. Ambient +95F, trackside and paddock circa 120F It was ok in the car moving with coolsuit etc but packing up mid Sunday pm was miserable. A couple of times my mechanic looked like he was about to collapse so I told him to go sit in the AC. And with a Cup the engine and trans will be at or beyond max temps with double yellows, Reds, Blacks and usual on track and gridding delays.
Even if it all goes right and you don't have a mechanical that requires time under the car (we did- molded plastic rad fitting blew under heat and stress) it can be less than fun. I told him that if I ever mentioned doing it again to talk me out of it. It'll be a long layoff through July and Aug but not when I think about the alternative. It's hard on the car, the drover and last but not least, the crew.
Good time to work on the car in an ac'd garage.
As always YMMV.
07-09-2017, 02:28 PM
#7
Assuming, you are running a cool suit AND start hydrating 2-3 days before your event AND hydrate during the event 100+ deg F temps in a relatively dry climate are no issue BUT you need to listen to your body. I personally find it much more difficult to stay hydrated at high humidity, even at lower temps.
Pirelli slicks don't fail because they get too hot or are over-inflated. They fail in most instances because they were damaged during times of under-inflation. It is very important to learn to get them up to temperature without damaging them. I run IR tire temp sensors with live displays and they are a great tool not only to set-up your car but also to monitor the tire warm-up phase.
Just reading through your post again, you will find live peak tire temperatures to be much much higher than what you are measuring in the pits, even at relatively low ambient temperatures. At Daytona we run hot tire pressures 3-4 psi above normal given the higher loads.
Pirelli slicks don't fail because they get too hot or are over-inflated. They fail in most instances because they were damaged during times of under-inflation. It is very important to learn to get them up to temperature without damaging them. I run IR tire temp sensors with live displays and they are a great tool not only to set-up your car but also to monitor the tire warm-up phase.
Just reading through your post again, you will find live peak tire temperatures to be much much higher than what you are measuring in the pits, even at relatively low ambient temperatures. At Daytona we run hot tire pressures 3-4 psi above normal given the higher loads.
Agreed. I notice that I put in less time in the heat toward the end of the day or the second day (if they are back to back). Good observation on getting behind. I take it easier on the last session, perhaps I was seeing that I was getting a bit fatigued and it was time to call it a day. Thanks.
Trending Topics
07-09-2017, 02:43 PM
#8
needs to be looked after. I have driven Cali Speedway on a number of occasions, I have never seen a cool day there..typically I run with a SoCal track Club in September, bloody hot. I focus on hydration and do have a 24 qt. Cool Shirt reservoir.
In my opinion, the engine needs to be monitored by somebody of some "thing", and you'll be too busy to be visually checking the gauges...great solution is an AiM MXL-2 system digital dash. In addition to a shift light, and all the other features such as a digital tach, best lap time of the session, predictive lap time, you'll have at least four channels for alarms, that you or your AiM guy set. Water temp, oil temp, oil pressure, etc. On a late model car, all of this data is available from the vehicle's electronics, CAM BUS data.
You can't miss an alarm, the face of the dash goes red, and it pulses. The cost is $1,999 + installation, and while you are at it, might as well get AiM's integrated SmartyCam.
You can get infra red tire ramp monitors integrated into the system, that would be four (4) inputs...the AiM may need to be expanded, at an extra cost, to accept these incremental inputs
"I have an event at Laguna in early August and it will be a max high of about 70." On paper it may be 70, but it can get hot there...the track is very narrow, and "busy", and you'll have few opportunities to glance at gauges.
"I have heard on a speedway like Fontana that blowouts are possible when on the oval." Hoosier has a bulletin that warns of the potential dangers of oval tracks such as Cali Speedway and Daytona. They suggest less camber on the outside of the car, the right side at Cali Speedway, and running higher tire pressure on that side as well." Don't know about Pirelli slicks..they may be impervious, but I doubt it.
"That is not something I want to tempt without my data from my tire temp sensors." The AiM dash will do all the monitoring for you as well as incorporating the data into the data logger software for later review.
"What do you all think is acceptable for track temps without tempting fate?" If you are running on a track at speed, and assuming you want to wring X potential performance out of the car, you will be tempting fate, regardless of the temperature.
There are numerous shops around SoCall that are AiM focused, one being Dan's Aspesi's Speed Gallery in North Hollywood. He supports a stable of race cars. He also has a guy that can install your AiM System, and in addition, will come to the track with you to teach you how to interpret the AiM data from AiM's Race Studio 3.
If you are running with POC at Laguna in early August, I'll see you there. I'll have my AiM MXL-2 and SmartyCam ready to go.
In my opinion, the engine needs to be monitored by somebody of some "thing", and you'll be too busy to be visually checking the gauges...great solution is an AiM MXL-2 system digital dash. In addition to a shift light, and all the other features such as a digital tach, best lap time of the session, predictive lap time, you'll have at least four channels for alarms, that you or your AiM guy set. Water temp, oil temp, oil pressure, etc. On a late model car, all of this data is available from the vehicle's electronics, CAM BUS data.
You can't miss an alarm, the face of the dash goes red, and it pulses. The cost is $1,999 + installation, and while you are at it, might as well get AiM's integrated SmartyCam.
You can get infra red tire ramp monitors integrated into the system, that would be four (4) inputs...the AiM may need to be expanded, at an extra cost, to accept these incremental inputs
"I have an event at Laguna in early August and it will be a max high of about 70." On paper it may be 70, but it can get hot there...the track is very narrow, and "busy", and you'll have few opportunities to glance at gauges.
"I have heard on a speedway like Fontana that blowouts are possible when on the oval." Hoosier has a bulletin that warns of the potential dangers of oval tracks such as Cali Speedway and Daytona. They suggest less camber on the outside of the car, the right side at Cali Speedway, and running higher tire pressure on that side as well." Don't know about Pirelli slicks..they may be impervious, but I doubt it.
"That is not something I want to tempt without my data from my tire temp sensors." The AiM dash will do all the monitoring for you as well as incorporating the data into the data logger software for later review.
"What do you all think is acceptable for track temps without tempting fate?" If you are running on a track at speed, and assuming you want to wring X potential performance out of the car, you will be tempting fate, regardless of the temperature.
There are numerous shops around SoCall that are AiM focused, one being Dan's Aspesi's Speed Gallery in North Hollywood. He supports a stable of race cars. He also has a guy that can install your AiM System, and in addition, will come to the track with you to teach you how to interpret the AiM data from AiM's Race Studio 3.
If you are running with POC at Laguna in early August, I'll see you there. I'll have my AiM MXL-2 and SmartyCam ready to go.
I will be sure to ask Dan about our camber/pressure for when we do Cal Speed in September with POC.
I will be at Laguna for the August 5-6 POC event, please come by and say hello. I will be with Dan and Vali.
Thanks again, Chris
07-09-2017, 03:14 PM
#9
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Frank, thank for all the input. I am looking forward to having the tire sensors installed, the data will be very valuable. This way we will know what the tires did on the track, not just after a session. The hydration is key. I grew up in Texas and have a pretty good threshold for hot days, I don't love them, but can take them more than most. Funny thing, it was after living in Tahoe for a few years that I really came to understand hydration, but from an elevation standpoint. So, I am very good about getting hydrated.
07-09-2017, 05:12 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
If you are with Dan, your are in good hands. His brother Lance has done some outstanding custom work for me in the past...I'll be in to see him before Laguna Seca...I'll be in a 97 Carrera, #10, and will be garaged near Dan, sharing a garage with John Gordon. Dan is an incredible resource as is Lance.
Martin
Martin
Martin, thank you so much for all of this. I bought my car from Dan (one of his customers) and he has been supporting me and the car. I learned more with Dan my first session with him then I ever had with any other instructor. He knows these cars very well and and is a real good guy. The Cup I bought had a Smarty Cam, but the previous owner removed it. Dan should be installing me my own Smarty Cam system this week for the next time we go out. We are also installing the AiM tire sensors.
I will be sure to ask Dan about our camber/pressure for when we do Cal Speed in September with POC.
I will be at Laguna for the August 5-6 POC event, please come by and say hello. I will be with Dan and Vali.
Thanks again, Chris
I will be sure to ask Dan about our camber/pressure for when we do Cal Speed in September with POC.
I will be at Laguna for the August 5-6 POC event, please come by and say hello. I will be with Dan and Vali.
Thanks again, Chris
07-09-2017, 05:24 PM
#11
Last year I raced at Barber end of July in the NASA race advertised as "Hotter 'n Hell" event.
It was. Ambient +95F, trackside and paddock circa 120F It was ok in the car moving with coolsuit etc but packing up mid Sunday pm was miserable. A couple of times my mechanic looked like he was about to collapse so I told him to go sit in the AC. And with a Cup the engine and trans will be at or beyond max temps with double yellows, Reds, Blacks and usual on track and gridding delays.
Even if it all goes right and you don't have a mechanical that requires time under the car (we did- molded plastic rad fitting blew under heat and stress) it can be less than fun. I told him that if I ever mentioned doing it again to talk me out of it. It'll be a long layoff through July and Aug but not when I think about the alternative. It's hard on the car, the drover and last but not least, the crew.
Good time to work on the car in an ac'd garage.
As always YMMV.
It was. Ambient +95F, trackside and paddock circa 120F It was ok in the car moving with coolsuit etc but packing up mid Sunday pm was miserable. A couple of times my mechanic looked like he was about to collapse so I told him to go sit in the AC. And with a Cup the engine and trans will be at or beyond max temps with double yellows, Reds, Blacks and usual on track and gridding delays.
Even if it all goes right and you don't have a mechanical that requires time under the car (we did- molded plastic rad fitting blew under heat and stress) it can be less than fun. I told him that if I ever mentioned doing it again to talk me out of it. It'll be a long layoff through July and Aug but not when I think about the alternative. It's hard on the car, the drover and last but not least, the crew.
Good time to work on the car in an ac'd garage.
As always YMMV.
Thanks
Got it, thanks.
If you are with Dan, your are in good hands. His brother Lance has done some outstanding custom work for me in the past...I'll be in to see him before Laguna Seca...I'll be in a 97 Carrera, #10, and will be garaged near Dan, sharing a garage with John Gordon. Dan is an incredible resource as is Lance.
Martin
Martin
07-09-2017, 10:22 PM
#12
Rennlist Hoonigan
which cost no drachmas
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
which cost no drachmas
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
There's some good examples and info in this thread https://rennlist.com/forums/data-acq...ale-now-3.html on IR tire temps. Neil's article (linked at the end) is really good and gives you an idea of what to do with the data. There is some other info available out there, it just takes some digging to find.
:
07-10-2017, 12:25 PM
#14
Seriously though, that was yesterday. No room in garage for car, 100F and 110% humidity made the inside of race car and garage ridiculously hot. Repurposed window AC made interior work quite comfortable. Probably the first time the inside of that car has seen AC in 10 years. Now maybe I should fab up some brackets and get an inverter...
As for the track day, the suggestion earlier about hydrating before the track day works well for me. Start on Thursday and ensure I end Friday "sick of water" and a Saturday hot track day goes decent. I also minimize exposure by getting into the AC as much as possible and if I do get tired, I just bag it and leave early - not worth the risk.
On a hot day if you get behind on water you will never catch up.
-Mike
As for the track day, the suggestion earlier about hydrating before the track day works well for me. Start on Thursday and ensure I end Friday "sick of water" and a Saturday hot track day goes decent. I also minimize exposure by getting into the AC as much as possible and if I do get tired, I just bag it and leave early - not worth the risk.
On a hot day if you get behind on water you will never catch up.
-Mike
07-10-2017, 12:41 PM
#15
There's some good examples and info in this thread https://rennlist.com/forums/data-acq...ale-now-3.html on IR tire temps. Neil's article (linked at the end) is really good and gives you an idea of what to do with the data. There is some other info available out there, it just takes some digging to find.
haha, we will go hide in our truck with the a/c running when it gets too hot.
Seriously though, that was yesterday. No room in garage for car, 100F and 110% humidity made the inside of race car and garage ridiculously hot. Repurposed window AC made interior work quite comfortable. Probably the first time the inside of that car has seen AC in 10 years. Now maybe I should fab up some brackets and get an inverter...
As for the track day, the suggestion earlier about hydrating before the track day works well for me. Start on Thursday and ensure I end Friday "sick of water" and a Saturday hot track day goes decent. I also minimize exposure by getting into the AC as much as possible and if I do get tired, I just bag it and leave early - not worth the risk.
On a hot day if you get behind on water you will never catch up.
-Mike
As for the track day, the suggestion earlier about hydrating before the track day works well for me. Start on Thursday and ensure I end Friday "sick of water" and a Saturday hot track day goes decent. I also minimize exposure by getting into the AC as much as possible and if I do get tired, I just bag it and leave early - not worth the risk.
On a hot day if you get behind on water you will never catch up.
-Mike