How do you money shift without the clutch?
#17
Rennlist Hoonigan
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Just like ProCoach said Bingo!!
If you watch the NASCAR at the Glenn, you will most likely see wheel hop from a few guys going into the bus stop, or at other hard braking corners. Often this is why they spin. Just think that all this gets selected but when the RPM difference in too great, the wheels are under speed compared to the track, the wheels lockup, and the suspension design under braking allows them to skip on the pavement.
Here is a great example:
http://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-med...238018001.html
If you watch the NASCAR at the Glenn, you will most likely see wheel hop from a few guys going into the bus stop, or at other hard braking corners. Often this is why they spin. Just think that all this gets selected but when the RPM difference in too great, the wheels are under speed compared to the track, the wheels lockup, and the suspension design under braking allows them to skip on the pavement.
Here is a great example:
http://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-med...238018001.html
#18
Rennlist Member
Edit...you are probalby right in that that nascar example of what you say though.. i think that is brake and engine braking combined. i wonder if he was going for a shift too and had the clutch pushed in. it also has a lot to do with suspension set jup. look at all that slop in the wheels for and aft. almost like something was broke.. but it did it with both the inside and outside wheels...
#19
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Usually, it's uncontrolled application of the accelerating/decel forces. Common with cars not set up for breaking the tires loose, and on decel yes, engine braking can cause the exact thing in reverse.
Edit...you are probalby right in that that nascar example of what you say though.. i think that is brake and engine braking combined. i wonder if he was going for a shift too and had the clutch pushed in. it also has a lot to do with suspension set jup. look at all that slop in the wheels for and aft. almost like something was broke.. but it did it with both the inside and outside wheels...
Edit...you are probalby right in that that nascar example of what you say though.. i think that is brake and engine braking combined. i wonder if he was going for a shift too and had the clutch pushed in. it also has a lot to do with suspension set jup. look at all that slop in the wheels for and aft. almost like something was broke.. but it did it with both the inside and outside wheels...
In that video, the commentators also say it's from braking.
#20
Three Wheelin'
The other consideration with a dog box is that the gears are all attached to the same shaft and are spinning at the same speed. That's part of the reason why they can select any gear at any time. The dogs just jump between gears like the diagram showed. The edges of the dogs are engaged into the gear that is being used, so all the is required is a slight torque reduction to allow the load to come off the dog and allow the shift work to change positions.
#21
Drifting
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I do not know the ratio of bad shifts vs brake bias that cause wheel hop in NASCAR. I would lean towards brake bias being the cause in the majority. I am confident that down shifting with a large(r) rpm delta does cause wheel hop. But I am willing to be schooled and learned if I am have eerrerred.
#22
Rennlist Member
Yes, without question. In fact, the video linked above shows wheel hop that is most likely from too much rear brake. Commentators claim brake bias as well..
I do not know the ratio of bad shifts vs brake bias that cause wheel hop in NASCAR. I would lean towards brake bias being the cause in the majority. I am confident that down shifting with a large(r) rpm delta does cause wheel hop. But I am willing to be schooled and learned if I am have eerrerred.
I do not know the ratio of bad shifts vs brake bias that cause wheel hop in NASCAR. I would lean towards brake bias being the cause in the majority. I am confident that down shifting with a large(r) rpm delta does cause wheel hop. But I am willing to be schooled and learned if I am have eerrerred.
Matt is right though, i bet this was only rear brake caused, but downshifts, if you dont blow the motor, can cause it too. its a way to naturally not blow the motor when the wheel hops, the differential RPM is not as bad to the engine.