mark kibort

Well, you can either accept it, watch my vidoes, try and find a squeak, ANYWHERE, on the street or track, and then ask, how i do it, OR you can fight it and NOT wonder what im doing differently to allow use of anything from a pagid orange to a ST41 on the street or track and not ever have a squeal again.
Again, im not making this up.... 20 years of dual street and track use, no squealing. single piston porsche or 4 piston brembo on every type of rotor imaginable.

yes, 100s if not 1000s are not doing it right. race pads work perfectly on the street, even when cold. never had a hint of a problem in performance. again 20 years of no squeals... track and street duty. . Now, do you want to know how?

Mike Murphy

Maybe it's because you are special, lol.

erko1905

Please do share.

mark kibort

Well, if i can do this for 20 years , over many many of sets of race pads, and you cant, maybe im more "special" than you. seriously though.. there is a method and you might want to know how do to it.... I've done it and its not just on my own racer , its on others as well. the method address the root cause of the squeeking, which is a vibration frequency. its all about getting the surfaces of the pad and rotor to be matched near perfectly. traditional pad bed in, doesnt do it.........and if its not done correctly, the imperfections follow over the life of the pad and rotor. (thus the noise)

mark kibort

Anyway, back to sugarwood's issue.. this is a bed-in problem and can be cured if they are still fairly new and the rotor is in good shape by a proper bed in procedure

996tnz

My experience too. Pad compounds are like tire compounds - they have an optimal operating temperature range.

My RST2 fronts and RSL29 (or maybe RSL19?) rears were chamfered (front and rear edges bevelled at 45 degrees and very thoroughly bedded per Pagids instructions for race pads. If anything they were over bedded as I ran that procedure twice - I wasn't happy with the shallow depth of the white layer and the relatively small volume of fumes coming off the first time. But a day or two on street and they start to squeal again, so I looked into why.

Beyond conditioning the pads themselves, beddding also puts a transfer layer of pad compound on the rotors. This means that freshly properly bedded pads and rotors are essentially braking via pad compound to pad compound contact rather than pad compound to bare steel rotor surface. So they are quiet and don't squeal.

If your car is a track only car, your brakes spend most of their time in the ideal operating temperature range for those race pads, that pad compound transfer process keeps happening during use (pads get hot enough for a film to stick to the rotor) , and you get little or no squeal.

But if your car is then used on the street afterwards, those race pads don't get properly hot often enough to maintain that transfer layer. Instead, the pads run too cool, and operate primarily through mechanical friction rather than compound to compound 'stiction' - the rapid breaking and reforming of the compound's molecular bonds at the interface. That mechanical friction rapidly scrapes that transfer layer away to leave a near naked rotor surface. This mechanical friction dominance at lower temps leads to friction induced squealing, and to accelerated rotor wear.

As Mark says, you can rebed your pads (well rotors really - as sufficient hot braking puts a fresh transfer film on them) at any time to beat the squeal. My car is quiet for a day or two after tracking or racing her for instance. But unless you have a tight and twisty canyon handy on your daily commute, that's hard to keep up.

In my limited experience with (well bedded) street pads on track, pad fade has been less noticeable than massively accelerated pad wear compared to race pads. Three or four times faster wear when run at race temps, so they can die within an hour or two of track time. Then yes, finally massive and fairly sudden fade when they wear down to the thermal backing layer or just get too thin. Makes for excitng times if you do run out of street pad. Sometimes the backing plate gets hot enough to fuse to the piston by melting around it, as it did in our Integra once:



DE sessions are usually kept short, which keep temps safe for street pads, but its always a good idea to keep an eye on their wear rate, especially with longer sessions. That wear rate accelerates as they get thinner, and I've found that the last 3/16ths or so disappears real fast on sustained track sessions if we haven't kept ahead of it by swapping on new pads.

mark kibort

I have run race pads and street/race pads on the track and on the street with no issues of noise when bedded per my technique. There is no film to speak of. I've actually pulled rotors directly after a race and taken them to a lab. The surface was identical to the surface when machined lightly. Ive run the rotors with the race pads for 4 months on weekends, taking magazine writers for thrill rides in the mountains..... and around town in gentle street driving . then, driven on the streets for an entire winter... about 4-5 months , no racing. At the first track day, they work just as they did at the end of the season. PERFECTLY with out a sound. Ive learned to understand what makes the vibration and what doesnt cause it. what causes it is a miss bedded in pad. (surfaces are not matched). when matched the vibration is almost un noticeable. to do this, you need the rotors and pads to be matched , physically and the resins baked out of the pads. this happens naturally in a race after 20mins of 100% driving. but almost impossible on the street , unless you figure out a way to trick the pads and rotors that they are on the track for 20 mins. ive found this way and have offered the technique to others to help. Again ive been doing this for 20 years. never had any of the major brands of race pads squeak. ever . you all can see my videos. there is never any noise. i have video on the street. never a squeak, at any speed or at any brake pressure.
high speeds, will remove the film to bare metal. it has to do with the high temps and the pressures involved.

again... this the main Pagid versions (RS14, R-4-4) porterfield, raybestos, st41 performance friction (PFC11, 01, 08), etc.... they all can be bedded, used on the track and street with little or no notice operational differences on the street vs real street pads.

if you have any doubts. i have my car that just came off a trailer from a laguna seca race weekend.... Equipped with very aggressive PFC11 pads.... ill drive it around on video if you want. apply any brake pressure, go any distance, and nothing will change. there will not be a noise and there will be no exceptions.

scorcherjf

I've ran PFC08's and PFC11's on OEM and Girodisc rotors (without using the OEM vibration dampers) - they always squealed like a banshee on the street between track days. This year I actually tried using Girodisc titanium shims hoping to keep some heat away from the piston seals but as an unexpected surprise the PFC11 pads were silent on the street and track. I can't say this is definitive but it seems like the shims act similarly to the OEM vibration dampers that usually attach to the pistons.

Anyone else have experience with shims?

mark kibort

you might have got lucky with the bedding ... I've never used any special shims or vibration dampers ... no noise on any pads, at any speed any time anywhere.
its all in the bed in process. Sure there are things to reduce the noise, but to cure it, its a bed in process.

Gofishracing

I love the sound of screaming pads in the morning.

dan212

No matter how well you bed them in, street driving will eventually get you squealing again. Just hammer your brakes now and then and the squealing will go away. This is normal.

The hammering I refer to is not the same as a normal full bedding procedure. Just get some real heat in them now and then. Check your mirrors.

LuigiVampa

Why would you run yellows on the street if the squealing bothers you? It takes about 20 minutes to swap out pads.

I leave my track pads on my 944 and it squeals a little from time to time. Who cares?

rlm328

Especially your neighbors a 6 am.

mark kibort

that isnt exactly true... i can provide a process that assures no squealing, even with 6 months of street driving. its all in the bedding process. what you say is true though.. however, its a distant relative to the real solution. proper initial bed in. again, this is 20 years of doing this with NO squealing for track and street duty.

Gofishracing

Mark- no way