Jabs1542

I've noticed this for the past several weeks. Get my Tuesday morning Speed Secrets Weekly email, read it, and then get the Winding Roads bulletin the next day with the exact same article.

The advantage with the Speed Secrets Weekly email is that it is email text that you can squirrel away and read later. I find this helpful as an article may not interest me until I take another perverse turn down this rabbit hole of a hobby

CosmosMpower

On until I get a feel the student won't do something stupid and kill me. Then off if they have decent throttle/steering control. If they are jerky and smacking the gas/brake pedal it stays on

Paul Solk

Interesting... Coming from a student's perspective a couple of things to consider:

Ideally I wanted to learn how to drive my vehicle the same way I drive it on the road. That means nannies on. That also means understanding what they are doing, how they are going to react, how they are going to influence control, why they are engaging in the first place and being able to drive the car at the limits without the nannies kicking in which is a direct indicator that I am not exceeding limits and keeping things smooth...

Anything beyond that is no longer reflective of what I would do with my car in real life. Now I also attended a Car Control Clinic by the NNJR PCA clinic and THAT is where students should be shown the difference between nannies on an off, not on a track... Controlled environment, skidpad, point was to break the car loose, feel it, sense it and control it. Then do the same with nannies off and enjoy the spin when you realize you are not really a Jedi drift master

Just my .02 from a student's perspective

cosm3os

On until I can tell they are impeding the student's progress, then their option.

LuigiVampa

I'm brand new to instructing so my opinion is based on my own experience. I think learning on a 944 was the best thing for me. When I bought my Cayman I drove it straight away with the nannies off.

In my estimation I think it would be best to keep them on for a new driving and push them to turn it off once they get comfortable.

The professional instructors have given their opinions which are of the most value. But I ask this - how much of what is being said about keeping nannies on is about driver and instructor preservation versus learning?

winders

Driving on the track is NOTHING like driving on the street so why does any of that matter?

As a student, shouldn't your goal be to learn how to control a car on the track? If the nannies are on, what exactly are you learning and what is the car doing for you?

Paul Solk

Because my intent as a first timer and my first few times at a DE wasn't to learn how to be a "track driver" it was to learn how to push and understand the limits of my car so I had a better understanding of the car itself in a controlled track environment. Of course there are the track basics that come with a DE but my goal wasn't to come away as a track driver it was to come away with a better sense of understanding, confidence, predictability and control of my vehicle.

My instructor and I had this very debate and my personal preference as stated above rather than shutting them off was to leave them on, learn to drive within them and understand why they kicked in when they did opposed to disabling them with no prior knowledge of how the car would respond when I did. Then I went and did a Car Control Clinic to understand exactly that which again was an eye opening experience in itself.. For me it was better to have the nannies come on and be able to analyze and discuss why than have my car break loose to teach me a lesson... What do you learn with nannies on? Oh, I don't know, smooth hands, proper lines, blend lines, braking points, apex, exit, vision, smooth inputs, head up, eyes forward, point by's, sharing the track, just the critical basics... To counter your question, Do you learn more by putting you and your instructor in a wall because the car did something that was both unpredictable and you were unprepared for or allowing the nannies to do what they do, recognizing it, discussing it and focusing on getting your student through the same scenario without the need for the nannies to kick in at all?

Now granted that first DE obviously kindled a fire in myself personally hence where I am at now but perhaps that is part of the overall message to instructors here. You need to understand what your student is looking to achieve and as a student you should be able to clearly communicate that to your instructor.

CosmosMpower

You would ideally not be driving your car as hard on the street as on the track though so the dynamics are different.

Paul Solk

No, you wouldn't but you would have a better understanding of what that felt like and have experienced it on track rather than the street which is why I went to a DE in the first place. Not to be a track driver but to experience what my car was capable of in a controlled track environment. Isn't that how DE's are positioned to people coming off the street?

Coochas

I thought it was national PCA policy that PSM etc have to be left on in instructed cars.

alanshutko

Driver and instructor preservation seem like good things. People learn better if they aren't in the hospital.

DTMiller

100% agree.

People who have never been on track don't have any idea of what it is like. Your first post in this thread was, I think, a wonderful summary of the typical first timer. Many think the "spirited" driving they do bears some resemblance to what happens on a track and that once freed from imperious traffic law restrictions their inner-Senna will be on display for all to admire.

winders

None of those things have anything to do nannies one way or the other so I have no idea why you conflate the two....

The car doing something unpredictable? You mean the driver doing something he/she shouldn't have?

LuigiVampa

If you want zero risk you stay home. Its a balancing act.

Paul Solk

Because you implied there is nothing to be learned with the nannies on and my point exactly is that there is plenty to be learned with them on or off.

Ok, great, so you are right, the driver did something they shouldn't have, remember, they are a novice on track after all so do you want to be sat there watching their car being loaded onto a wrecker because they made a mistake or have the ability to recognize what just happened, ask them to tell you why it happened, correct them and try to prevent the nanny kicking in again to reinforce they have learned the lesson or punish them for their mistake? If you really think you can't learn anything with the nannies on then to each their own. I personally think for a novice they are a great indicator you did something wrong that needs to be corrected without needlessly endangering the student, their car or the instructor.

I personally would not be comfortable if an instructor told me I was not going to learn anything about my car on a track unless I disabled all the nannies but that is just me and my approach. I am also curious if you read the article because your opinion is not only contrary to mine but contrary to the article as well.