Matt Romanowski

The owner of G Loc, Danny Puskar, was one of the founders of Carbotech. The hole story is here http://www.g-locbrakes.com/about-us/

I've never run Carbotech, but according to Danny, the owner of G Loc, they are not the same.

ProCoach

To the OP, would really recommend to keep things simple, help your development and ensure the lack of any incompatibility drama while on track, to go with the OEM stock pads for your first few events. The manufacturers really spend a lot of time optimizing the application and release characteristics as well as the consistent deceleration rates of all the components working together as a system.

it would be most helpful to learn how the car stops now before investigating alternate, aftermarket and performance pads and/or rotors. Only then can you make an educated and informed assessment of how those choices may be better (or worse) than a baseline OEM setup. YMMV.

gbuff

They must be sons of Mike Puskar Sr and brothers of Mike Jr. whom I believe are still Carbotech--hope so, as I'll soon be calling Mike Jr for my XP12s!

Gary

gbuff

Sage advice ......years ago I rode with an instructor in an E30M3 at Summit Main and questioned her about this exact topic (upgrading pads and/or other brake components); she was of a mind that people tend to spend way too much $$$ on BBKs, trick rotors, etc....what she told me that always stuck with me was "if you can lock a wheel you've got enough brake".

Sure, at some point as you get faster you may wish to do something but, as stated, as a novice see what you've got now and learn HOW to brake on a racetrack before you start changing things.

Gary

mark kibort

Locking a wheel is never a measure of braking.. it's a measure of tire grip vs braking force.. any car and any caliper and any brake pad can lock its tires up.

What better brakes (usually larger rotors and better pads) do for you, is allow you to either fight fade during a high g deceleration, over a long duration. OR, allow you to better modulate the braking force during a decel. You can upset the braking balance of the car due to bias changes, but that is not a huge problem until you find and are driving consistently at the limits of the car. larger rotors can dissipate more heat, can be easier to modulate, and two piece aluminum hat rotors can disipate heat faster.

gbuff

Which I think was pretty much the instructor's point....no need for anything extravagant, at least when you're just starting out.

Olemiss540

PFC 08 is a perfect DE pad. Can't understand wanting to run through an entire set of stock pads in 1 to 2 days and hope they don't fade. Maybe I am a chicken, but I think brakes are the ONE thing you need to spend money on. A good high temp fluid and endurance track pads will last a beginner for 6 or so weekends. Never be able to fade them and will last! Safety is the name of the game people. This is not a goal for better performance but to ensure the car actually slows down when you hit the middle pedal.

Open to thoughts on why this isn't common sense? I will hang up the phone and listen.....

jplohg

I recently upgraded pads, rotors, lines and fluid for the first time. I always ran stock previously. I run in blue solo. I cannot stress how much better my brakes feel and perform. However, I did the conversion all in one step so I am not able to say with any degree of certainty which component or components are responsible. The reason I upgraded was firstly that my brake pedal felt squishy after 2 to 3 twenty minute sessions on the track, likely due solely to the stock brake fluid and secondly I wanted more performance. The fluid alone probably would have been a great upgrade, but, since my stock pads were nearly worn out and my stock rotors were showing signs of significant cracking, I made the decision to upgrade the rotors to Girodiscs and the pads (Ferodo GT3 size at the front and Pagid RS29 in stock size at the rear) as well as stainless steel brake lines and Castrol SRF brake fluid. with R compound tires, I swear it feels as if the car has 2x the braking force (I know this is likely not literally true

jplohg

the ferodo pads squeal like a dump truck and are probably too annoying to drive around town. I will swap them for regular pads off track. As mentioned before, - car wash or water squirt seems to stop/reduce the squeaking for about a day. So, long story short, I would strongly recommend only changing the brake fluid at first and when your pads and rotors are worn out, if you feel the need to keep tinkering, consider upgrading the rest. Additionally, as others have pointed out, the tires are a large limiting factor in extracting more braking performance.

3Series

I switched to PFC08 last year and they are more consistent and wear a lot better than stock pads. Of course this depends on the tracks you are driving.

I felt the stock pads would not bite near the end of a session, hence my brake point would need to start earlier. The stock pads would noticeably wear out.

With the PFC's I can't visibly see the pad material being diminished day to day.

For those of you running PFC08, approximately how many days are you getting out of them?

Do you find that your pads outlast your rotors?

ShakeNBake

mark kibort

While this is true, i think that cavalier response by many instructors or track people misses the point. what they usually (not always) mean is that if you can lock up the brakes the brakes are fine.. when in actuality, that is a meaningless measure. Brake systems are designed to slow the car down at max grip. lock up is a very low decel rate and, 0 burden on the brakes. (just tire skid ). it happens before there is proper weight transfer, and slip % of the tire is not maximized. (so the brakes are not fully utilized).
the main point is that brakes have 3 major factors. the pad being the most important. depending on your cars performance, even stock fluid can survive a DE day. go up in grip with DOTs and experience, and you might hit the limits. power to weight ratios will also tell you how far you might be able to go with stock equip. putting a good dual purpose pad is a great idea. if you bed it well, it wil not make noise and will not fade at the track... fluid is an easy change and also helps with making sure the pedal doesnt get soft due to high temps. technique is very important, and one that gives DE folks the most frustration. experience racers and trackies, use the brakes for short duration, with high forces, giving the system more time for cooling. someone that rides the brakes for long periods of times will over heat the system, while a seasoned racer, will post 10 seconds faster a lap times, and not have issues with the same brake system.

ProCoach

Benchmark slowing decel rate for about any modern car is -1.0g sustained on a flat and level surface of reasonable mu (pretty much any dry, 70 degree day track). If you can't do that easily, something is wrong.

mark kibort

yes, that is a bench mark for a street car, but the KEY factor left off is time... 1.0g sustained (means constant) but for how long, THAT is the key.
1g from 60mph is under 3 seconds..... and this is the problem. this is because of the squared factor of heat dissipation as speed goes up. (In other words, 60-0mph at -1g, is not like 100 to 50mph in any way , shape or form)
So, the operative word is "sustained" the question is, "how long".
overheat can take many shapes and be caused by many factors. its effects are brake fade and/or soft pedal. Soft pedal is fluid, fade is pad coeff of friction issues. Solution can be better/bigger components or better technique (or both)

ProCoach

Mark, a proper "operators test" of a functioning brake system, in a street car, on street tires, is -1.0g decel.

That is all.

The rest of it is for another thread.