nycarb

Looking to do first DE at NJMP soon. My assumption was that Green/Novice/Beginner was "relatively" safe

However after reading threads like:
WHAT IS "SAFE ENOUGH" FOR A DE or
FOR THOSE WHO HAVE CRASHED
I'm starting to wonder just how safe it is....

Stories like...
the guy who flipped on his 2nd DE or
the guy who went into a wall doing 60mph at 3/10ths from a patch of coolant

As being a total noob to DE I don't know if incidents like these are common or they are exceptions--especially for beginners and beginners groups.

I guess it would help to define "common" so perhaps I can pose a question

What is the incident rate per track day, per group? (Incident=car wrecked became undriveable)??
Hypothetical Example:
Red/Black = 1 every 4 days
Intermediate = 1 every 2 days
Green = 1 every year

I understand nobody really publishes this but even anecdotally....
What has been your experience? What have you heard?

I asked 1 friend this who has 10 years experience with BMW clubs... he's maybe only seen 2-3 wrecks in a beginner group in all his time.

Unless someone says they see 1 major wreck every track day ... I dont think I will NOT get into this... but I want to go in with eyes wide open

Thanks in advance

gbuff

You know, there's always golf

Seriously, certainly things can happen....you're driving on a racetrack, at speed, and anything can happen to anyone at any time.

At the same time, though, there are literally tens of thousands of cars at these things in a given year, so even though there are threads such as the ones you reference, though I don't have any empirical data to back it up I'd imagine the percentage of incidents to entrants is quite small.

It's kinda similar to car forums where you read about all the problems people experience--makes you not even want to look at that make of car! But, again, in reality, people usually only post when they have a problem, not when all is well, so take these things with the proverbial grain of salt.

Sign up, prepare your car as prescribed in one of the many threads on the subject here, get on track and LISTEN TO YOUR INSTRUCTOR. Then get a separate charge card for the track only, hidden from your SO

Gary

David993S

I'm sure you'll get lots of good advice here, and there are several threads on this topic if you search.

I'm not going to go into a lot of detail, so I'll just say there are some things you can't control such as a patch of coolant on the track; and things you can control such as having an open mind, progressing at your own pace, don't compare yourself to others, listen to and learn from your instructor(s), prep you car, and have fun.

If going into it with your eyes open means understanding that things can happen, then you're being realistic. Approach it as a learning experience and you'll be OK. It's a lot of fun.

Cheers.

mglobe

Incidents in the beginner run group are extremely rare. I honestly don't remember the last time I saw one. In my opinion, as long as you enter the event with the right frame of mind, you are at least as safe on the track as you are driving to and from it. Probably safer on the track.

MaxLTV

It's very organization and track dependent. BMW and Audi clubs in North East could see the whole season without car damage in green sessions and 5-10 years between car-to-car contact incidents in any group. At the same time, less restrictive groups may see 2-3 incidents per day per group, usually with minor damage, though.

ace37

I've been to 8-10 or so and all were in Utah. Most were with NASA. Usually of all the cars attending (~3 groups of a few dozen cars) at least one car had a spin or went off the track at some point in the day. Typically there's either no damage or the guy just goes into the gravel and picks up a few stone chips. I've seen a few cars towed home for damage. These were *always* a one car accident and almost always due to a guy with no instructor taking a clean corner a bit too fast and then messing up the correction. The only totaled car I saw happened to the same solo driver I looked at an hour before and said "should he really be going that fast?" I wasn't the only one thinking that. It was a tuned GT500 with loads of power. I haven't ever seen anyone go to the hospital from a DE.

Consider insurance for your first day as you essentially buy peace of mind.

Some tracks have a lot of runout and not a lot of hard objects and barriers. My track is that way, and if yours is, the risks of damaging the car are lower. This is simply because a driver making the same mistake is more likely to cause a trip to the dirt instead of a trip to the wall. Of course, drivers know his, so I suspect they are more careful at less forgiving venues.

A PCA DE rented half the track one day and the local motorcycle racers had rented the other half for a race (we have a huge track and it splits in half cleanly). They had two life flight helicopter pickups for two different bike accidents that day. The typical reason is a guy gets run over by whoever was behind him. I know one of the guys ended up with brain damage and don't know anything about the other. It was clear that would be an unacceptable level of risk to me.

Bill Lehman

This mirrors my experience. I've been instructing for 8 years and have had about 70 students. No issues. NJMP has a lot of runout on most turns.

linzman

Things happen. You could get run over by a red school bus while raking leaves in your back yard in the middle of summer. What are the chances? About the same as you being able to find the actual incident rate at a DE event.

But seriously, the overall incidence is very low, but it varies by which group you run with, and what their overall culture is in terms of expectations. PCA, Audi, BMW club, Chin, and many others take having "safe fun" very seriously, and don't tolerate nonsense. Others are more lenient, and may see more incidents. IMO, the highest incident rate is in the intermediate solo groups, where there are no instructors, people are starting to push their cars , but may not have the experience level to realize they are overdriving, or to catch their mistakes in time.

Have your car checked by a reputable shop familiar both with your car and track events. Buy insurance if you're not comfortable with the very very small, but real, risk that something could happen, come with open mind, listen to your instructor, have a blast. Get a secret bank account and join the rest of us on that very slippery slope.

Manifold

My rules of thumb for DE events of 2-3 days with 100-150 cars:

0 cars damaged - very good
1 or 2 cars damaged - unfortunate, but kind of normal
3+ cars damaged - not good, need to assess what's going on

Even when cars are damaged, it's rare for people to get seriously injured, and very rare for people to get killed (maybe average 1 or 2 in the whole US in a year, with about 100 million DE miles driven). So anytime someone gets hurt or worse, it's a really bad day at the track.

jlanka

I'm with Metro which you might consider based on your location. Other regions are similar. The events are very well run and the instructed groups (green/yellow) are even better since you have a person in the right seat who knows what he/she is doing and most of the cars are not pushing it to the limit. I wouldn't worry about an incident in green with PCA, just go and see what your car is capable of. I was in your shoes 3 years ago and was very glad I took the plunge.

Jeff

ML///

The best advice is to attend with an open mind and listen to instructor to learn the track and your car. You'll have immense fun and you'll stay out of trouble. Maybe watch a few YouTube videos to learn the line but you'll get it first hand at the track.

Streak

You'll be fine. Incidents where a car is totaled or someone is hurt are rare.

Things you can do to mitigate the potential dangers are:

Be diligent with the tech inspection each morning and pre-event
Pay attention to your instructor
Listen in the classroom sessions

You'll love it.

ProCoach

Keep your eyes up and moving. Defensive driving 101.

I still feel safer on track than I do driving to and from the track...

Batman33

I just participated in my first HPDE event this past WE at Summit Point with the local PCA chapter. The three most important matters stressed at all times were 1) safety, 2) safety, and 3) safety. That's not to say that incidents don't happen...they do (and did). But, I am completely comfortable going back for more given my assessment that the risks are managed as best they can be. My understanding is that the rate of occurrence of serious incidents at these events is very low. That is not to say its a low risk activity...that's why there is a track insurance market. Get some (insurance!) and go have some fun. Hell, woodworking (my hobby before this) with power equipment is arguably dangerous!

white924s

+1 for Metro - they run a great event, lots of fun but with a serious attitude about safety.

The organizing group sets the tone for behavior on the track, and that plays a big role in minimizing risk. I think it's wise to evaluate the group organizing the event to the same extent you evaluate your preparation for your car.

Finally, NJMP is a great track to learn at. Both tracks there are interesting enough to challenge you, and each has lots of runoff room nearly everywhere, so going off track (while not ideal) isn't likely to damage your car - or more importantly, you