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Old 02-14-2017, 10:37 AM   #46
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I would think much of the smoke is the tire wall
Yep. Car buried in the tires...
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:57 AM   #47
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Yep. Car buried in the tires...
Was that tire wall belted in the front? Belting increases the impact attenuation of tire walls, and should also prevent a car from getting buried in the tire wall if the overall configuration of the tire wall is appropriate (number of rows, bolting, backing, etc.).

The reporting may be unreliable or inaccurate, but I noticed in one of the news articles that police believe that both individuals died on impact, which suggests that they may have died even if there wasn't a fire.
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:11 AM   #48
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Was that tire wall belted in the front? Belting increases the impact attenuation of tire walls, and should also prevent a car from getting buried in the tire wall if the overall configuration of the tire wall is appropriate (number of rows, bolting, backing, etc.).

The reporting may be unreliable or inaccurate, but I noticed in one of the news articles that police believe that both individuals died on impact, which suggests that they may have died even if there wasn't a fire.
If that's true, it makes you think about all those people at DEs with stock 3 points.
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:33 AM   #49
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The reporting may be unreliable or inaccurate, but I noticed in one of the news articles that police believe that both individuals died on impact, which suggests that they may have died even if there wasn't a fire.
That's what I heard.
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:34 AM   #50
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If that's true, it makes you think about all those people at DEs with stock 3 points.
It's all geometry...
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:35 AM   #51
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If that's true, it makes you think about all those people at DEs with stock 3 points.
While I prefer 6-points, I personally am OK with stock 3-points for DE in a modern car with multiple airbags, well-engineered crumple zones, etc.

Given what we know about the circumstances so far, this particular crash had an unusually bad outcome, and it's not yet clear why.
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Old 02-14-2017, 12:29 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Manifold View Post
Was that tire wall belted in the front? Belting increases the impact attenuation of tire walls, and should also prevent a car from getting buried in the tire wall if the overall configuration of the tire wall is appropriate (number of rows, bolting, backing, etc.).

The reporting may be unreliable or inaccurate, but I noticed in one of the news articles that police believe that both individuals died on impact, which suggests that they may have died even if there wasn't a fire.
They do that for the families. It gives peace of mind that their loved one did not suffer.
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Old 02-14-2017, 01:17 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by needmoregarage View Post
I would think much of the smoke is the tire wall
No doubt true, but I still think it's unusual for a street car to "immediately burst into flames". Lots that we don't know yet.
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Old 02-14-2017, 01:39 PM   #54
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This thread also makes you wonder how safe having a simple fire extinguisher in the car is...

After a collision, you might be knocked out... Will you be able to use it?

In the collision mentioned here, were there corner workers? Did they have fire extinguishers?

Scary. Helluva way to go.
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Old 02-14-2017, 02:28 PM   #55
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This thread also makes you wonder how safe having a simple fire extinguisher in the car is...

After a collision, you might be knocked out... Will you be able to use it?

In the collision mentioned here, were there corner workers? Did they have fire extinguishers?

Scary. Helluva way to go.
No corner workers per this post since its not a track event so to speak.
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Old 02-14-2017, 04:37 PM   #56
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This thread also makes you wonder how safe having a simple fire extinguisher in the car is...
FWIW, it's my impression that we have mandated fire extinguishers for DE to put out OTHER cars on fire. Not your own.

If a car catches fire, you've got a bunch of people with extinguishers on the scene way before the fire crew can get there.
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Old 02-14-2017, 05:01 PM   #57
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FWIW, it's my impression that we have mandated fire extinguishers for DE to put out OTHER cars on fire. Not your own.

If a car catches fire, you've got a bunch of people with extinguishers on the scene way before the fire crew can get there.
That makes sense... but most people have the mounted types with the pull string, I believe... Those aren't portable...

Either way, seeing this thread, plan to get at least a portable one...
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Old 02-14-2017, 05:09 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Weasel View Post
FWIW, it's my impression that we have mandated fire extinguishers for DE to put out OTHER cars on fire. Not your own.

If a car catches fire, you've got a bunch of people with extinguishers on the scene way before the fire crew can get there.
We are always told not to stop for a fellow driver as that could make the situation more dangerous.

If I saw something I would like to think that I would use my judgment. Lots of instances where a fellow driver pulled someone to safety.
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Old 02-14-2017, 05:10 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Weasel View Post
FWIW, it's my impression that we have mandated fire extinguishers for DE to put out OTHER cars on fire. Not your own.

If a car catches fire, you've got a bunch of people with extinguishers on the scene way before the fire crew can get there.
I realized as I was as writing it that my initial, mirthful response was not appropriate for this thread. But the latter is simply not always true.

When I started with the Ferrari Club in the early to mid 1980's, they required, only for the top, unrestricted (still no passing in the corners) run group, full suit, socks, gloves and helmet, as well as a metal-to-metal mounted 2.5 lb fire extinguisher. Many folks without roll bars or cages had my shop build strap mounts coming off the forward side of the seat mount slides, under the passenger' knees. They were used, more often on their own cars than others.

Regarding the latter, I have been in more than one incident on-track where, if I had relied on the workers and bottles placed pit-side to put out the fire, I'd have lost cars and perhaps suffered injury. No slam on workers, just stating facts. On board portable and fixed systems are still REALLY important, relevant and in some venues, required...

I have stopped to render aid (because I'm trained) and on other people's cars found dead batteries on electrically triggered systems, missing or unsecured pull cables and dead bottles.

A portable bottle, secured properly, is cheap HPDE insurance. For yourself or someone else...
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Old 02-14-2017, 05:38 PM   #60
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Tragic story. Hopefully the details of what happened will come out at some point but I guess we will have to wait for the lawsuit which is most likely already in the works. Was it a track design issue, mechanical failure on the car, tire puncture, or pilot error that lead to the impact?

Hopefully these kind of paid venues make it perfectly clear that the instructor in the right seat has absolute authority, and that the rules will be followed, no exceptions and no refunds for those who don't adhere.
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