Jochen Mass Expert Guide to Sebring
01-13-2017, 09:43 PM
#16
Drifting
Such a great video. I miss that track so much. Thanks for posting.
@Peter: thanks for the commentary too!
@Peter: thanks for the commentary too!
01-13-2017, 09:56 PM
#17
Rennlist
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"the melody, the rhythm of this circuit..." Good video!
Not sure what Sebring is like today, but for us old timers, driving Sebring required rhythm because of the expanse of the track, there just wasn't much close by to use as reference. Cones and hay bales were used to lay out much of the track and those would get booted out of the way. At night it was very difficult. Stories about guys spinning and getting lost, not able to easily find their way back on the track. Turn one was much faster (If I remember, flat in 5th) than today and there was no track lighting. Pass start finish and start counting down, barreling into the darkness. Rhythm...turn in and hope.
G
Not sure what Sebring is like today, but for us old timers, driving Sebring required rhythm because of the expanse of the track, there just wasn't much close by to use as reference. Cones and hay bales were used to lay out much of the track and those would get booted out of the way. At night it was very difficult. Stories about guys spinning and getting lost, not able to easily find their way back on the track. Turn one was much faster (If I remember, flat in 5th) than today and there was no track lighting. Pass start finish and start counting down, barreling into the darkness. Rhythm...turn in and hope.
G
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/da...bring-12-hours
What happened to those rear fenders in the race?
Here's the story of you winning the 12 Hours overall, over Peter Gregg and Jim Busby, in 1977. http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...B566838C669EDE
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-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
01-14-2017, 12:22 AM
#18
Drifting
I didn't have enough money to get on track very often then, so mostly it was used for autocross, but I worked for TrackTime out of Ohio and Car Guys out of Virginia, the first few "for profit" DE organizations and ran time trials myself. I took it everywhere I went. It would capture 4 minutes of data! I had an Epson printer to "save" my runs.
Peter,
That is interesting - I ran a few track events at Mid-Ohio and maybe Nelson Ledges with the TrackTime guys after they first started. Bunch of PCA guys if I remember correctly - fun events and well run, that was a few year ago -
Phil
Peter,
That is interesting - I ran a few track events at Mid-Ohio and maybe Nelson Ledges with the TrackTime guys after they first started. Bunch of PCA guys if I remember correctly - fun events and well run, that was a few year ago -
Phil
01-14-2017, 05:24 PM
#19
Thanks Peter..
George, I think it was much longer (like ANOTHER mile and a half) when you won it. Yes, Turn 1 in your day did not require any braking...
What happened to those rear fenders in 1977?
When Jochen won it in '87, he was on the 4.11 mile course, with a tighter turn one. I raced Sebring twice, in '75 and '77, on the old 5.2 mile course, used from '52 to '82.
No braking in turn one for us, just the choice of lifting a bit, or having the nerve to stay in it. Turn one was a popular spot to observe who was serious.
We had five flats in '77...which explains the lack of body work. It was extremely hot that year, the track was mess and we were lucky the shredded tires did not damage suspension. Despite the extra stops and Brad falling out with heat stroke, we still won by five laps and did 234 laps, compared to 235 in '75, when I got 2nd overall to the Redman-Moffat-Stuck-Posey BMW.
After the race, Interscope/Polak Racing (Haywood, Ongais, Field. in a 934.5, 5th oa,16 laps down), lodged a protest against me, citing rules that a car had to have fenders. My defense...the car had fenders at the start.
By the way...Bobby Rahal drove with Jochen in '87 and now owns my Sebring RSR.
Good times 40 years ago!
G
What happened to those rear fenders in 1977?
When Jochen won it in '87, he was on the 4.11 mile course, with a tighter turn one. I raced Sebring twice, in '75 and '77, on the old 5.2 mile course, used from '52 to '82.
No braking in turn one for us, just the choice of lifting a bit, or having the nerve to stay in it. Turn one was a popular spot to observe who was serious.
We had five flats in '77...which explains the lack of body work. It was extremely hot that year, the track was mess and we were lucky the shredded tires did not damage suspension. Despite the extra stops and Brad falling out with heat stroke, we still won by five laps and did 234 laps, compared to 235 in '75, when I got 2nd overall to the Redman-Moffat-Stuck-Posey BMW.
After the race, Interscope/Polak Racing (Haywood, Ongais, Field. in a 934.5, 5th oa,16 laps down), lodged a protest against me, citing rules that a car had to have fenders. My defense...the car had fenders at the start.
By the way...Bobby Rahal drove with Jochen in '87 and now owns my Sebring RSR.
Good times 40 years ago!
G
01-15-2017, 03:36 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
No.
As you know, "aero" advantages do not come into play until at least 70-75 mph, and many (most) of the turn in speeds are a third less than that. So, the idea of aero influencing the entry geometry doesn't come into play for many of these corners.
Of the several terabytes of information and video I have for a broad of drivers at Sebring, the most glaring error most drivers make (of all experience levels) is early (or more than one) turn in.
They either turn in from the middle of the road and have to ADD steering input (sometime more than one "add") or turn once early on a shallow vector away from the edge of the road, then jerk in more steering suddenly when they realize they aren't pointed in the right way to negotiate the exit!
So, what Mass does is WAIT, one or two musical "beats" after most folks initially turn in, and executes the corner better than 90% of my sample data from then last twenty-seven years...
I've actually worked with one of his well known (Porsche factory driver) contemporaries and he does the same thing. In the end, you have to KNOW what's right to DO what's right.
As you know, "aero" advantages do not come into play until at least 70-75 mph, and many (most) of the turn in speeds are a third less than that. So, the idea of aero influencing the entry geometry doesn't come into play for many of these corners.
Of the several terabytes of information and video I have for a broad of drivers at Sebring, the most glaring error most drivers make (of all experience levels) is early (or more than one) turn in.
They either turn in from the middle of the road and have to ADD steering input (sometime more than one "add") or turn once early on a shallow vector away from the edge of the road, then jerk in more steering suddenly when they realize they aren't pointed in the right way to negotiate the exit!
So, what Mass does is WAIT, one or two musical "beats" after most folks initially turn in, and executes the corner better than 90% of my sample data from then last twenty-seven years...
I've actually worked with one of his well known (Porsche factory driver) contemporaries and he does the same thing. In the end, you have to KNOW what's right to DO what's right.
Asinine...Happy New Year to you too. ;-)
Last edited by 333pg333; 01-15-2017 at 06:20 AM.
