HoBoJoe

Our region has two instructed run groups, which really helps out the drivers who have never been on the track before.

Wild Weasel

Same here. We've got Green and Yellow, both fully instructed. There was one weekend I recall where they let the Yellow group go solo because there weren't enough instructors but it was on the smaller slower track.

Then we have 2 solo groups. White and then Black. Frankly, I was quite happy staying in Yellow for as long as they left me there. There tended to be a lot of open track and few trains and I'll take all the instruction I can get!

Being in the White group now though... there's something to be said for just concentrating on practicing what I learned. I just hope I don't develop any bad habits before requesting an instructor to come with again to try to take things to the next level.

ExMB

That is not universal. I instruct in regions were groups are set up differently (lets leave group identifiers out of this since they vary across regions). The lowest group is basically treated as an introduction to track driving. If someone decides they like it, shows the correct mind set they get moved moved up where instructions continue. Once they master the skills necessary for that group they get a check ride for the next group where more advanced instruction is available.

Maybe you need to talk to the regions you run with and bring up your suggestions. And yes, I know of regions where the goal is to move up students to make room at the bottom at the expense of the higher groups (which aren't filled up as much).

gbuff

I run with many PCA regions that do not use the "color system" for setting run groups but rather letters i.e. A-D with D being the novice group and A the "advanced solo" group. B group may or may not be instructed, and there may be two A groups loosely determined by horsepower (with the honor system applying i.e. in this setting I wouldn't choose to drive my Mini in the high-hp group with all the Cup cars). The assumption is made that if you are an A driver (it helps if you have often run with the group over a period of time and they know you, as well as you being able to verify your on-track experience) you'll be able to handle most any situation out there, including the "expanded passing" protocol. If the assumption proves to be incorrect in your case from either on-track feedback from the marshals or your own driving comfort level, changes can be made. I've participated events of this type for years and things have generally gone very well with few hiccups.

Regarding trains, believe me, they are not the sole province of the lower run groups....I attended a PCA event last year that was billed as an "advanced DE" (white, black and red run groups) with 2 groups of cars again based on horsepower. For brevity's sake suffice to say that my run group was a disaster in terms of people with fast cars that almost had to stop to turn, and in the process seemingly ignoring their mirrors and letting cars pile up behind them. There was almost as much traffic on pit road with cars doing drive-throughs as there was on track......

And contrary to what's posted above concerning the number of cars in each group, I've seen just the opposite i.e. the upper run groups are completely full and the lower ones have many open slots......obviously this depends on the particular region but many of us in these groups have "come up through the ranks" together over a period of years; actually make the driving more fun as you kinda know what to expect from them.

Just my dollar and 2 cents

Gary

Gofishracing

FABSPEED- how about the young lady that didn't know how to drive manual so Instructor shifted for her after telling her to clutch. YEP. AND how about another another student giving passing signal while shifting? think about that!!

John@Fabspeed

Not sure what you're getting at my friend

Gofishracing

Just another Instructor's day- that's all.

John@Fabspeed

Sounds like a blast

mhm993

Mea culpa here. I made a girl student cry.

She arrived late and missed the am meeting and classroom because, as her husband told me "she wanted to sleep in". ( I got up at 4:00 am to arrive early enough to meet her before the am meetings started). So I, umm, assumed she "knew everything" and was ready to solo. She drove a car so loud that the chatterbox was useless. And then she didn't bother showing up for the first session, leaving me with my helmet and my thumb where the sun don't shine, standing at pit out. Did I say it was pouring?
She finally gets rolling and at the third turn slows and pulls to the apex side of the brake zone and starts to give passes with her front fender between the overtaking driver and the apex.
At this point I was fit to be tied, and exclaimed, "that was an unacceptable error for a driver who knows everything" Somehow this time she could hear the chatterbox, started to cry and said she was pitting in. And then she missed pit in and we had to go around again.
Yes, I wasn't pleasant, and yes, I now realize that occassionally it's best not to get in a particular student's car.

There was also camaro boy, who tried to kill me for two days at the glen, despite me doing everything possible and then some to slow him down and make his safe. I drove his car. I put him in my car. I drew things on the white board. I demonstrated, cajoled and demanded. Toward the end of the day when he once again drove too fast and missed most every apex on the out lap, I demanded he pit in and go to my trailer...where I got out a sledge hammer and returned to the car asking which fender he wanted destroyed, no point in waiting for the inevitable to happen ontrack. Believe it or not, that act, along with a fair bit of screaming, actually got him to slow down for the last session. But I don't get in Camaro's anymore, just to be sure.

(My apology if girl student's husband is a rennlist member reading this. Is what it is)

Gary R.

I don't get why their are variations in PCA DE as far as the run group naming conventions, it just adds to the confusion. CVR had it right IMO, Green (Instructed) for novice, Yellow (instructed + solo) for Advanced Novice, White for Intermediate, Black for Advanced, Red for Instructors. I can even see naming Yellow Solo as Blue to separate them (but run in Yellow run group)..

ExMB

You just stated it.

AFAIK PCA at one time tried to standardize the run group nomenclature. Regions seemed to be in favor as long as their system was the one that was adopted.

I know of a region that used a very similar system than 3 other regions. They reversed yellow and white with the rest of the colors staying the same. That brought some comments because of the skill mix in those run groups. Finally they decided to revise their's to match the other 3. But it took a long time for that to sink in.

mglobe

This plus the fact that some regions run two student groups, some three, some four... In some regions 200+ car count is normal. In others 20 cars is a good weekend. Some run on abandoned airstrips. Some at The Glen. Even if PCA set a standard naming convention for run groups, the non-PCA organizers would have their own ones, and those who run with PCA and other organizations would still have to deal with differences.

At the end of the day, the Pain/Gain ratio for standardizing run groups is just not worth it.

gbuff

Indeed, some of the car counts at these things border on the ridiculous--I went to sign up for an event last year and there were already over 70 cars and counting in the Black group alone; I passed. That's where the private groups are nice--you pay more but more often they cap the number of entrants before it gets out of hand.....

In recent years here in the Northeast it's been more common to see PCA and BMWCCA regions/chapters joining forces to put DEs on; most of those from what I've seen adopt the letter system used by the latter (for simplicity's sake? Not an organizer so don't know).

Moral: Just take each individual event for what it is and enjoy yourself

Gary

Wild Weasel

How can any place not cap entries?? I mean... there's only so many cars you can fit on the track for everyone to have a good time.

For my region, there's almost always a wait list and I've never felt like the track was over crowded. Seems to me they're doing things right there.

gbuff

I guess some groups are greedier than others