Paul 996

My sponsor SportsCarShop is putting together a prototype belt driven dry sump for me. He will be sorting things out on either a Spec Boxster and/or Cayman S race car.

What is the interest level here on something like this?

To be sold as a kit for your shop to install or installed by SportsCarShop in Virginia. Basically it is not for your "average" DIYer.

For discussion sake let's say this costs a little more than double what you would pay for an Accusump and would likely include enhanced oil cooling.

This application uses the pulley location for the AC so for a street application you lose AC. More intended for dedicated track cars / race cars.

For PCA Club Racing the rules would need to be adjusted to allow for additional methods of protecting the engine instead of simply naming the Accusump. This solution is not designed to increase HP on M96/M97 engines and actually robs a small amount of HP needed to turn the Oil Pump. This is purely for providing additional oil scavenging and delivery of a steady pressured stream of cooled oil.

Have any of you tried this already? I need a solution.

Paul 996

I submitted my idea to PCA CR Rules. Hoping to be able to add something like this to my car to finally solve the oil starvation issues inherent in the M96/M97 engines.

Has no one here considered this or done this? Looking for ideas. I have looked at what L&N has, the German outfit TTC, etc. It seems like all try to address the scavenge issue in the heads but the oil supply is still potentially compromised and we have to rely on a wide flat oil pan to supply the oil from. An external oil supply tank would certainly solve that no?

jdistefa

Paul,

Timely topic. We're just rebuilding my SPB motor prior to the Glen. I've personally torn down 2 of these motors and my wrench has done an additional 2. All show the same pattern of oil starvation related damage to rod & main bearings and journals, in addition to IMS surfaces.

We're pulling out all the stops with all the latest LN bits and an external oil cooler but I think with the fundamental design issues in this motor it's just a matter of time..... Our approach is going to be annual tear downs to get ahead of potential grenades.

Interested in what you're doing and how PCA responds

Paul 996

Matt,

Thanks. Didn't know you just lost a motor too. Would love to share notes with you. And I am not the mechanic just the parrot of what I hear when I ask the questions and then subsequently pays the bill.


I know some folks swear by the Accusump but then many shops/mechanics are against it.

flatsixforme

Interested in this potential solution/outcome with the rules. I'm about to start building my spec boxster and have spent countless hours reading on what "fixes" make these engines reliable in a race setting. As I think we all know, there is no perfect solution. At least for now, what my research into all this has lead me to are the following upgrades:

1. EBS X51 style baffle
2. External oil cooler with fan pack instead of the "S" oil cooler
3. LN IMS bearing
4. Motul 8100 5w40
5. 3rd radiator

My thinking, or really my hope is that by curing the oil temperature issue with the oil cooler it will have a postiive effect elsewhere in the engine. Cooler oil means it will be more viscous which will keep oil pressure higher. Cooler oil is less prone to airation (at least from what most of the information I have found says...there are some conflicting opinions on this) which will put less strain on the AOS and allow the oil pickup to not suck as much air. All this still leaves starvation issues so I guess the kind of oil and EBS baffle are the two "fixes" for that. I've considered the deep sump but am not convinced that anything but the high end LN product recently released will have a significant impact.

Would love to get the thoughts of people currently racing these engines.

Adam

MUSSBERGER

Anybody using this yet?

http://www.bodymotion.com/OilSumpPansPressRelease.htm

eric523

Interested to see how it goes. I've purchased a few external pumps and have played around with mounting them in the same location. Thoughts from the pump manufacturer was that the stock belt style might slip at higher RPMs and cause issues.
Then there is the issue of where to mount the tank, how it will fit in each other persons car depending on equipment and roll cage design, so we kind of set the project to the side. My motor has been going through the ringer with slicks and good speeds without any visible damage so far. Time will tell, but the $$ spent building a system was starting to outweigh the cost of a spare motor.

jdistefa

Will be using the new deep sump kit from LNE (no affiliation). Bodymotion appears similar, although it looks like it still has rubber/synthetic baffle doors. IMHO I prefer the nascar style hinged aluminum doors... and so does my wrench


Yup... plus the lower temp thermostat, drain plug magnet, and filtermag on the oil filter. We change the oil and filter every 2 track days.

Gary R.

Paul, why wouldn't they use an electric pump so there is no extra drain on HP?

eric523

electronics still drain power by way of the alternator, so there is no free power on the vehicle really.

Gary R.

Parasitic draw from a belt driven pump vs. amp draw would be a big difference, no?

Ernie J

You ,guys should check out Mantissport's deep sump. They have been racing since 2006 a cayman, the latest version is more advanced that LN's 2 qt sump and has more ground clearance. DFI sump extension also available at much lower cost.

Gary R.

That's what i would look at....

txhokie4life

For better or worse an electric scavenge pump would be constant rpm

No belt alignment issues

Could be placed wherever

I've thought of mounting an oil cooler in the rear trunk area to cut down on plumbing
And pressure drops.

I gave up on my boxster track car when the rsr fell into my hands

Mike

Paul 996

The electric oil pump was my original idea as a way to scavenge both heads and simply return the oil into the stock sump. This was kinda cost effective. Once we started talking about that my mechanic came up with a belt driven system that is used on a number of other applications to dry sump.

I am still waiting on any form of comment back from PCA.

The fallback is easy to go back to the electric scavenge pump.

My understanding from the folks that rebuild the engines is that they have to make modifications to the crankshaft clearances to improve oiling to the main bearings. I have heard this at 4 places now as the ultimate cause of the main bearing failures.

I'll keep sharing what I learn.