Had a fantastic 3 day DE at WGI with Metro PCA
08-29-2016, 07:05 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Had a fantastic 3 day DE at WGI with Metro PCA
I went with Metro PCA to WGI this weekend 8/26 - 8/28. Took my Spec Boxster and wife and daughter. Last time I was at WGI was June 1/2 for a Metro DE and I stayed for the Club race on June 3 and 4. The club race was very inspiring (maybe someday). I did OK then and my best lap was a 2:36 (in yellow group with an instructor).
Last time I was still somewhat intimidated by the track, due to it's size and potential close armco. Was taught to always respect WGI. This time I went there hoping to improve a little, even if I could get 1 second better I'd be happy.
I was still in yellow so I went out with an instructor on Friday (Andy from Columbus OH). He remained relatively quiet, but quickly started telling me I was doing most everything OK and should probably move up to blue as this green/yellow group was hurting my progress. OK so that was good. I got a 2:38 best for my first session and a 2:44 best for my second, so be it. Then for my third session I saw a 2:35. There's my second, the rest of the weekend is gravy.
Andy said tomorrow morning (Saturday) he would promote me to blue, and go out with me for my first session just to make sure I was comfortable in the higher run group. Great.
Friday after the track went cold, Bill Rudtner led a track walk. That was somewhat of an epiphany for me, as I picked up some seriously important data that would help me greatly for the rest of the weekend. Most of which was the camber in turns 1 and 11. I couldn't believe how steep they were. OK so I better start hitting these faster (especially 1). Also Bill talked about the bus stop and how to hit it aggressively.
Saturday morning, first session - Andy went out with me. I had a new attitude, with my turn 1 info. I was flying up the esses like never before. When the session was over Andy said I was going faster every lap. I downloaded my AIM data and whoa! I got a 2:30, 5 secs better. What a surprise that was, although I could feel how much better I was driving.
Rest of the day, I was having a mini competition with another driver (Jackie) and our lap times. She had gotten a 2:30 the day before and I told her about mine. She says "I got a 2:29". Next session (solo this time) I downloaded and saw a 2:29, told Jackie and she said "I got a 2:28". Damn, always 1 second ahead. So my best for Saturday was a 2:29.
Sunday rolled around, and I wanted to leave during lunch because my wife can't drive the trailer and I knew I'd be too exhausted to make the 7 or so hour drive after a full day. So I had 2 sessions to play around with. No pressure as I'd already accomplished some nice personal gains. I figured I'd just take it easy (haha, that never ends up happening)
First session, I was hitting the bus stop much harder, and driving very well (for me) in general. Data? a 2:28. Not bad.
Second session, my wife and daughter came to the track to watch me (by the fence for turn 11/first part of the front straight). Went out there and just drove hard all around. My mantra for the session (actually for the entire weekend) was "gas gas gas", as I didn't want to get into any spin troubles (I've spun in turn 11). So if I feel like I'm starting to get into trouble, feed more gas. It worked.
I came in early from the session, as I felt I had driven quite well and was happy with my work. Didn't want to chance pushing it over the edge. Waved to my wife and daughter as I went by (they said they didn't see me waving). Now, let me download the data and check it. WTF? a 2:25 and a 2:24.
Pleasant surprise for me, but I felt that I finally got in tune with WGI and can now work on brushing up my technique, rather than just surviving. I drove home the whole way thinking about driving the track. Today I've been watching Matt Muller videos to look for areas I can improve (there are many).
Below is the video from my 2:24. Also a quick shot my wife got as I was going by (rev limiter snafu, LOL). Amazingly in the video I seriously missed the apex at both turn 7 (toe) and turn 9 (off-camber). Most of the rest of the weekend I was hitting apexes. Go figure.
Can't wait to get back there, wish I was driving it tomorrow. Probably have to wait till next season. Already registered for Lightning with Metro.
A big thanks to all my instructors throughout the last 2 years for helping me improve. And to Bill Rudtner for being my mentor.
The hook is in deep.
Jeff
Last time I was still somewhat intimidated by the track, due to it's size and potential close armco. Was taught to always respect WGI. This time I went there hoping to improve a little, even if I could get 1 second better I'd be happy.
I was still in yellow so I went out with an instructor on Friday (Andy from Columbus OH). He remained relatively quiet, but quickly started telling me I was doing most everything OK and should probably move up to blue as this green/yellow group was hurting my progress. OK so that was good. I got a 2:38 best for my first session and a 2:44 best for my second, so be it. Then for my third session I saw a 2:35. There's my second, the rest of the weekend is gravy.
Andy said tomorrow morning (Saturday) he would promote me to blue, and go out with me for my first session just to make sure I was comfortable in the higher run group. Great.
Friday after the track went cold, Bill Rudtner led a track walk. That was somewhat of an epiphany for me, as I picked up some seriously important data that would help me greatly for the rest of the weekend. Most of which was the camber in turns 1 and 11. I couldn't believe how steep they were. OK so I better start hitting these faster (especially 1). Also Bill talked about the bus stop and how to hit it aggressively.
Saturday morning, first session - Andy went out with me. I had a new attitude, with my turn 1 info. I was flying up the esses like never before. When the session was over Andy said I was going faster every lap. I downloaded my AIM data and whoa! I got a 2:30, 5 secs better. What a surprise that was, although I could feel how much better I was driving.
Rest of the day, I was having a mini competition with another driver (Jackie) and our lap times. She had gotten a 2:30 the day before and I told her about mine. She says "I got a 2:29". Next session (solo this time) I downloaded and saw a 2:29, told Jackie and she said "I got a 2:28". Damn, always 1 second ahead. So my best for Saturday was a 2:29.
Sunday rolled around, and I wanted to leave during lunch because my wife can't drive the trailer and I knew I'd be too exhausted to make the 7 or so hour drive after a full day. So I had 2 sessions to play around with. No pressure as I'd already accomplished some nice personal gains. I figured I'd just take it easy (haha, that never ends up happening)
First session, I was hitting the bus stop much harder, and driving very well (for me) in general. Data? a 2:28. Not bad.
Second session, my wife and daughter came to the track to watch me (by the fence for turn 11/first part of the front straight). Went out there and just drove hard all around. My mantra for the session (actually for the entire weekend) was "gas gas gas", as I didn't want to get into any spin troubles (I've spun in turn 11). So if I feel like I'm starting to get into trouble, feed more gas. It worked.
I came in early from the session, as I felt I had driven quite well and was happy with my work. Didn't want to chance pushing it over the edge. Waved to my wife and daughter as I went by (they said they didn't see me waving). Now, let me download the data and check it. WTF? a 2:25 and a 2:24.
Pleasant surprise for me, but I felt that I finally got in tune with WGI and can now work on brushing up my technique, rather than just surviving. I drove home the whole way thinking about driving the track. Today I've been watching Matt Muller videos to look for areas I can improve (there are many).
Below is the video from my 2:24. Also a quick shot my wife got as I was going by (rev limiter snafu, LOL). Amazingly in the video I seriously missed the apex at both turn 7 (toe) and turn 9 (off-camber). Most of the rest of the weekend I was hitting apexes. Go figure.
Can't wait to get back there, wish I was driving it tomorrow. Probably have to wait till next season. Already registered for Lightning with Metro.
A big thanks to all my instructors throughout the last 2 years for helping me improve. And to Bill Rudtner for being my mentor.
The hook is in deep.
Jeff
08-29-2016, 08:19 PM
#3
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Great job!
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08-30-2016, 07:37 AM
#5
Drifting
Thread Starter
Turn 6, interesting I'll have to try that. But turn 11 I wrestled with. Most of the time I was staying in 4th but I was bogging on track out at 3800. So Sunday I tried the downshift and I was able to get better speed out of the turn. I think it's because I'm not entering it fast enough. Other SPB drivers I spoke to said they stay in 4th for that turn
08-30-2016, 08:34 AM
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Hey Jeff, Nice reconnecting with you this weekend. The Metro guys do great job putting on an event. To Bill, Steve, Henry, and many others who put in the "thankless" hours to make these events happen for us here in the NE.
The weather was fantastic and the event proceeded smoothly with few interruptions.
I did Fri/Sat and my son got to drive in his first event. Using his Mom's 2015 stock auto GTI he was doing consistent lap times of 2:45 by day two. He thoroughly enjoyed himself and is looking forward to joining me at more events in the future.
Jeff, looking forward to seeing you at more events, great write up.
Kurt
The weather was fantastic and the event proceeded smoothly with few interruptions.
I did Fri/Sat and my son got to drive in his first event. Using his Mom's 2015 stock auto GTI he was doing consistent lap times of 2:45 by day two. He thoroughly enjoyed himself and is looking forward to joining me at more events in the future.
Jeff, looking forward to seeing you at more events, great write up.
Kurt
08-30-2016, 08:39 AM
#7
Rennlist Member
Turn 6, interesting I'll have to try that. But turn 11 I wrestled with. Most of the time I was staying in 4th but I was bogging on track out at 3800. So Sunday I tried the downshift and I was able to get better speed out of the turn. I think it's because I'm not entering it fast enough. Other SPB drivers I spoke to said they stay in 4th for that turn
Nice job, however, well done!!!
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08-30-2016, 08:43 AM
#8
RL Community Team
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Glad you enjoyed it! Good improvement on you time. It was a great event! Weather cooperated, and the Metro folks did a great job!
Ray
Ray
Last edited by rbahr; 08-30-2016 at 09:16 AM.
08-30-2016, 08:49 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
From a 2:38 to a 2:24...Massive improvement. Congrats!
08-30-2016, 09:02 AM
#10
Three Wheelin'
08-30-2016, 09:33 AM
#11
Rennlist Member
Nice lap Jeff. You have come a long way even since I was in the car last year at Summit Point.
I can see some easy wins here to go even faster, but be careful to do what you see in my videos. Going below 2:15 at WGI in a SPB requires balancing the car very carefully in some high speed corners, so make sure you work up to that.
Places I saw where you could push a bit harder -
More gas sooner in Turn 1
That was an early shift into 5th on the back straight. Drive it up to rev limit, the back straight is uphill
4th gear through the Bustop and down through the Outer Loop (Turn 5)
Turn the car in earlier at 6 and catch the camber. I personally would not eliminate the downshift here. In my car it would cause a lot of push to do it in 4th (I know, I have tried it)
More gas sooner and turn in a little earlier at 7 once again to catch the camber
Brake later for 8
Turn in earlier for 9
More gas at 10. This is why 11 requires the downshift. 10 can be flat in an SPB, but build up to that
4th gear at 11 and carry more entry speed
If you ever see me at WGI when you are there, I would be happy to go for a ride with you, or take you for a lap. I have done this for many of the Northeast SPB drivers and happy to help people out. Just come over and ask.
I can see some easy wins here to go even faster, but be careful to do what you see in my videos. Going below 2:15 at WGI in a SPB requires balancing the car very carefully in some high speed corners, so make sure you work up to that.
Places I saw where you could push a bit harder -
More gas sooner in Turn 1
That was an early shift into 5th on the back straight. Drive it up to rev limit, the back straight is uphill
4th gear through the Bustop and down through the Outer Loop (Turn 5)
Turn the car in earlier at 6 and catch the camber. I personally would not eliminate the downshift here. In my car it would cause a lot of push to do it in 4th (I know, I have tried it)
More gas sooner and turn in a little earlier at 7 once again to catch the camber
Brake later for 8
Turn in earlier for 9
More gas at 10. This is why 11 requires the downshift. 10 can be flat in an SPB, but build up to that
4th gear at 11 and carry more entry speed
If you ever see me at WGI when you are there, I would be happy to go for a ride with you, or take you for a lap. I have done this for many of the Northeast SPB drivers and happy to help people out. Just come over and ask.
08-30-2016, 10:10 AM
#12
Drifting
Thread Starter
Matt>>>Nice lap Jeff. You have come a long way even since I was in the car last year at Summit Point.
Thanks Matt, I've been trying. I think back to that DE and figure you must have been chuckling at how slow I was.
Matt>>>I can see some easy wins here to go even faster, but be careful to do what you see in my videos. Going below 2:15 at WGI in a SPB requires balancing the car very carefully in some high speed corners, so make sure you work up to that.
Definitely, Bill told me that doing a 1 minute lap at LRP is very difficult, not something I should be striving for at this point in my career. Same for 2:15 at WGI. Small bites.
Matt>>>More gas sooner in Turn 1
Will do.
Matt>>>That was an early shift into 5th on the back straight. Drive it up to rev limit, the back straight is uphill
Definitely, I found I was short-shifting too much after looking at my video. The lights on my AIM MXL2 are set to flash at 6000 (I figured that would give me 600 RPM warning that I was close to redline, but now I see that was wrong). I am going to adjust them to flash right at redline. After watching your vids I realize you have to pull up to redline or you're leaving a lot on the table (Mark Kibort would approve
)
Matt>>>4th gear through the Bustop and down through the Outer Loop (Turn 5)
I saw that in your video, (bus stop). I was trying to downshift twice in the back straight braking zone, which was messing me up because I would start braking at 400. Bill said if need to downshift to 3rd I should try doing in in the bus stop turn, but now I see as long as I'm fast enough in the bus stop 4th should be OK. "fast enough" is the key... For the carousel I see you're doing more of a rim shot, I'm going to try that next time.
Matt>>>Turn the car in earlier at 6 and catch the camber. I personally would not eliminate the downshift here. In my car it would cause a lot of push to do it in 4th (I know, I have tried it)
6 I was confused about the best tactic. I see in your vids, you turn in early, I was staying way right too much. I also see you like more of a rim shot here too.
Matt>>>More gas sooner and turn in a little earlier at 7 once again to catch the camber
Yes I saw the earlier turn in you were doing. 7 was the toughest turn for me, especially with the climb out. I'll have to practice that more. Gas Gas Gas.
Matt>>>Brake later for 8
Will try this.
Matt>>>Turn in earlier for 9
OK - I figured I was doing this wrong.
Matt>>>More gas at 10. This is why 11 requires the downshift. 10 can be flat in an SPB, but build up to that
I was working on this turn, I got up to 85 (I see you're at 90 or a little above) at the apex. Scott Stapleton told me I have to get as far right as possible to increase the radius, which I was trying to do.
Matt>>>4th gear at 11 and carry more entry speed
I spun here back in June, so I was a little tentative the entire weekend. I did see the camber during the track walk. I'm building up to it.
Matt>>>If you ever see me at WGI when you are there, I would be happy to go for a ride with you, or take you for a lap. I have done this for many of the Northeast SPB drivers and happy to help people out. Just come over and ask.
Definitely, I'd love to get more input from you. I'll also be at Summit Point again in November. I don't do so well in the right seat, but I'll try it out. Probably not cut out to be an instructor.
Thanks Matt, I've been trying. I think back to that DE and figure you must have been chuckling at how slow I was.
Matt>>>I can see some easy wins here to go even faster, but be careful to do what you see in my videos. Going below 2:15 at WGI in a SPB requires balancing the car very carefully in some high speed corners, so make sure you work up to that.
Definitely, Bill told me that doing a 1 minute lap at LRP is very difficult, not something I should be striving for at this point in my career. Same for 2:15 at WGI. Small bites.
Matt>>>More gas sooner in Turn 1
Will do.
Matt>>>That was an early shift into 5th on the back straight. Drive it up to rev limit, the back straight is uphill
Definitely, I found I was short-shifting too much after looking at my video. The lights on my AIM MXL2 are set to flash at 6000 (I figured that would give me 600 RPM warning that I was close to redline, but now I see that was wrong). I am going to adjust them to flash right at redline. After watching your vids I realize you have to pull up to redline or you're leaving a lot on the table (Mark Kibort would approve
)Matt>>>4th gear through the Bustop and down through the Outer Loop (Turn 5)
I saw that in your video, (bus stop). I was trying to downshift twice in the back straight braking zone, which was messing me up because I would start braking at 400. Bill said if need to downshift to 3rd I should try doing in in the bus stop turn, but now I see as long as I'm fast enough in the bus stop 4th should be OK. "fast enough" is the key... For the carousel I see you're doing more of a rim shot, I'm going to try that next time.
Matt>>>Turn the car in earlier at 6 and catch the camber. I personally would not eliminate the downshift here. In my car it would cause a lot of push to do it in 4th (I know, I have tried it)
6 I was confused about the best tactic. I see in your vids, you turn in early, I was staying way right too much. I also see you like more of a rim shot here too.
Matt>>>More gas sooner and turn in a little earlier at 7 once again to catch the camber
Yes I saw the earlier turn in you were doing. 7 was the toughest turn for me, especially with the climb out. I'll have to practice that more. Gas Gas Gas.
Matt>>>Brake later for 8
Will try this.
Matt>>>Turn in earlier for 9
OK - I figured I was doing this wrong.
Matt>>>More gas at 10. This is why 11 requires the downshift. 10 can be flat in an SPB, but build up to that
I was working on this turn, I got up to 85 (I see you're at 90 or a little above) at the apex. Scott Stapleton told me I have to get as far right as possible to increase the radius, which I was trying to do.
Matt>>>4th gear at 11 and carry more entry speed
I spun here back in June, so I was a little tentative the entire weekend. I did see the camber during the track walk. I'm building up to it.
Matt>>>If you ever see me at WGI when you are there, I would be happy to go for a ride with you, or take you for a lap. I have done this for many of the Northeast SPB drivers and happy to help people out. Just come over and ask.
Definitely, I'd love to get more input from you. I'll also be at Summit Point again in November. I don't do so well in the right seat, but I'll try it out. Probably not cut out to be an instructor.
08-30-2016, 10:20 AM
#14
Rennlist Member
Jeff, listen to Matt. He knows...
08-30-2016, 10:22 AM
#15
Race Car
Jeff - It was nice to work with you this weekend. You're doing all of the important stuff correctly and as we discussed, from here on out it's just getting laps to get comfortable and the speed will come. All of the advice above will come naturally as you get that comfort level in the car and begin really pushing. The most important thing was you know every time you set the car even a little bit incorrectly. You pick up on those things right away and correct them on the very next lap.
While I agree 4th is ultimately the right gear for T11, right now with where you are in the learning curve I think 3rd is still faster for now as the car was pretty sluggish up the front straight going through there in 4th. I'm sure my big behind in the passenger seat didn't help that any.
I never got a chance to thank you for buying me breakfast on Sunday morning...you are a true gentleman and I really appreciate it.
Hope to see you out there again soon.
-Andy
While I agree 4th is ultimately the right gear for T11, right now with where you are in the learning curve I think 3rd is still faster for now as the car was pretty sluggish up the front straight going through there in 4th. I'm sure my big behind in the passenger seat didn't help that any.
I never got a chance to thank you for buying me breakfast on Sunday morning...you are a true gentleman and I really appreciate it.
Hope to see you out there again soon.
-Andy