mark kibort

I dont think ABS does anything for increasing heat, only in that you are at the in and out of the limit of adhesion for the tires and on and off with max forces on the pads and rotors. however, it should be even worse to be just at the limit without ABS.

best to just change out the pads at 5-6mm and be safe and know there is still a good insulator there to protect the calipers.. ... Personally, i havent noticed much of a differnece in caliper temps with new vs 6-7mm pads, so i would think the difference is pretty small. if you have a 1400degree heater with in mm of the aluminum cast parts, they are going to get hot!

Veloce Raptor

Actually, Mark, Jason is correct

mark kibort

well, if so, i would like to hear why.. i have used and tried to abuse the ABS to prove two things, i can brake faster, which with the slow scan rate 928 ABS, thats easy, AND that there is no difference in heat. (much harder to prove)

so, if it is true, rather than using a testimonial as proof, I would love to know how ABS could in practice or in theory , induce more heat into the braking system.
for those involved in electronics, there is a chopper voltage, constant aperage to control amperage, and there are switching losses that cause heat... in this braking analogy, there are no such losses that i am aware of in a ABS system.

if you are going to validate the expert, you should really provide some reasoning or proof. i dont know for sure, but i have an idea of why ABS wouldnt cause more heat.

audipwr1

Don't see how that can be true, but interested in seeing the facts

Veloce Raptor

"If you engage ABS extensively, you're dumping a ton of heat into the brake system which will increase the wear of the pad."

Give it some thought...

audipwr1

If you engage the brakes a lot you will dump a ton of heat into the pad as well - that's not the question

I believe the question was if you use abs more than one threshold braking you are introducing disproportionate more heat to the pad.

I don't understand how that is the case which is why I asked

Veloce Raptor

It's the totality of the statement. In addition, extensive rapid application/release/application/release (emphasis on extensive) under ABS does in fact create more heat than traditional braking (a single application followed by release ).

Matt Romanowski

My data and experience show that not to be true. I've found PFC to create more heat in the rotor and transfer more heat to the caliper. This was verified on brake dynos in the lab as well.

Veloce Raptor

Your observation has nothing to do with what I said.

Matt Romanowski

jdistefa

...

the_vetman

It is generally recommended that you don't wear Pagids too thin. However, I can speak from much personal experience that you can run Pagid R29s and R19s down to the backing pad without problems. Done it many, many times though I run PFCs nowadays. Maybe not recommended but it is doable if you're willing to watch the pads very closely after every session.

I did have non-OEM brake cooling front and rear, however.

And, yes, I'm pretty hard on my brakes.

Veloce Raptor

Matt, creating more heat in the rotor has nothing to do with their ability to be run to the backing plate. Capisce?

Two separate comments.

Bill Verburg

The 29s I use are 18mm new, I change them at ~9mm

Any pad transmits more heat to the brake fluid as it gets thinner. The more aggressive the pad compound is the more heat will be transferred to the brake fluid. This last item makes it difficult to compare pads

I have had brake fade issues at WGI w/ 9mm 29 pads and black flag to idle in pit lane, coming off a hot track and sitting w/ foot on brake because of that little bit of a down hill a lot of additional heat is transferred to the fluid.

hard to see how abs action adds additional heat over constant threshold braking

Hatzenbach

Back to the original question: I noticed that the pad material on Pagids starts to crumble when you go below 5 mm. So if you do that check the pads after every session, to make sure that your surface area hasn't shrunk