Loud223

Sorry for this basic basic question. I've done a search and cant find specifics. I was all set to sign up for some track days this year. New GTS MT was delivered in Feb. I Have a neighbor who regularly attends track days so I figured he could guide me into the process which he has, and he wants me to join him.
My problem is that I cant get my foot into a heel toe position. My brake lever is much higher than my gas pedal and I cannot contort my heel to even touch the gas pedal when my toe is on the brake. Another thing is that my brakes are very grabby. So the learning curve is very high for me. I also have large (size 12) wide feet.
I can roll my foot so that my big toe is on the brake and my little toe is on the gas pedal and can blip it that way.
I'm just intimidated right now and don't want to get discouraged if I cant do it properly for the instructor.
Any Ideas?

TXE36

Is this your first weekend? If so, you won't need heel-toe anyways.

There are lots of ways to heel-toe, so much so the name can be kind of a misnomer. For example, I heel-toe using the "bigfoot" method. Ball of my foot on the brake and I roll the outside edge of my foot on the gas and I never use my heel. How you do it is driven by your foot mechanics, pedal horizontal spacing, pedal vertical spacing, and pedal shape/closeness.

Generally, gas pedal below the brake at full application is good. It is very difficult to heel toe when the brake pedal is below the gas at full application. It is also fairly difficult to learn to heel-toe on the street because you aren't using the brakes nearly as hard.

I have wide feet too - try the bigfoot method .

-Mike

bgiere

I can't heel and toe and have raced for years...Broken ankle years ago prevents me from twisting my heel...I make do.

Doug007

Forget the words "heel-toe" and watch Senna's loafers


He is using the left side of his foot on the brake and the right side of his foot on the gas. In my experience a majority of drivers do it this way, including Senna!

Frank 993 C4S

Don't worry about it! Just bring a good tire pressure gauge and listen to your instructor. If you want to take it s step further buy yourself a good fitting pair of driving shoes.

JustinL

Like others have said, it doesn't matter what mechanics you use as long as you hit the basic requirements. 1. Able to control brake pressure 2. No risk of slipping off the brake 3. Can blip the throttle.

I find for my cars with the hinge at the bottom of the pedal that I prefer to externally rotate my leg so that my mid foot is on the brake and I can use plantarflexion (pointing toes down at the ankle) to control the throttle. The best place to get the feel for it is with the car stopped and engine running. Then you can push the brake as hard as you would on the track and see if you can blip the throttle.

paradocs98

This^

I'm working on it, too, after two cars with DCT/PDK. It is frustrating to practice on the street because the gas pedal is so far down and away from the brake pedal, but what Mike says makes sense. It needs to be this way, otherwise the vertical pedal spacing won't be correct on track when you're pushing down hard on the brake pedal--Porsche lines the pedals up this way on purpose to favor a proper relationship on track/under threshold braking.

One solution I've found is to locate a road near you that is divided with a center median. Hopefully there's a section where there are turn lanes on either side that allow you to cross the median to go in the opposite direction. If these turn lanes are spaced a proper distance from each other, you can do a continual loop of 3rd to 2nd heel-toe downshifts under heavy braking for the left hand turn to then go in the other direction. Head toward the opposite turn lane down the road and repeat. Do this 10 or 20 times every day when traffic is light and it should help a lot.

Loud223

Thanks Guys! Guess I was getting hung up on the name.
Doug007, thanks for the video. very helpful.

Lou

morsini

First thing's first. You're street car isn't setup for heal toe. You'll need to move the throttle up or get a modded plate for the throttle. Next practice with the car off. Third, you'll be pressing very hard on the brake peddle and that'll make them closer.

noturavgm

I've lucked out always driving BMWs on street and track, who haven't changed their pedal layout since roughly the dawn of time.

Had to build up the brake pedal on my track car to get the correct relative height under hard braking though.

I use the ball of foot, side of foot, roll method

jlanka

Wait, doesn't the manual in all 991's have rev-matching?

Ying

Loud223, congrats on your first event! You will have a blast I am sure!

For your first track day, I generally tell my students not to bother with heel'n toe. There will be so much going on that throwing in a new driving technique will be an overload (same goes for left foot braking). Just focus on smooth braking, paying attention to your surroundings and listening to your instructor.

I do find that heel'n toe is something you can practice on the streets, even under partial braking. Like someone else has mentioned already, try to find a semi-empty road to practice on. Also, at the beginning, don't try to rev match all the way down to 1st. The gear ratio's between first and second are much larger than, say, 3rd to 4th. This makes a 2nd to 1st heel'n toe much harder as you will have to blip the throttle much harder. Practice on a 4th to 3rd downshift and you'll get it in no time Also with larger feet, I find that the "roll" is the best technique. Oddly enough, I wrote a blog post on heel'n toe, if you are really really bored and feel like reading up on it, I mention the roll at the bottom
https://ham-ind.com/2016/03/18/how-t...d-be-doing-it/

LuigiVampa

I did not start heel toeing until I decided to go racing and worked on it for about a year. First time I tried to heel toe with an instructor in the car I basically popped the clutch and we went spinning off at big bend at Lime Rock. I did that at least three times that day until I could heel toe raggedly.

It got a lot better with practice but I am sure one of my broken pressure plates was done in by the learning process. You also want to be careful not to make a "money shift" and redline your engine.

Don't sweat it in the beginning - you don't need it to have fun. You may want to look into a "wing" for your gas pedal that makes it easier to heel toe when you get there. I started with one but took it off after a while. Its like training wheels for heel toeing.

Also, remember that most people really do it as a "toe heel". By that I mean you are braking with your toes and applying has with your heel.

Just go out and have fun and tell your instructors to let you know when it is important to learn this portion of your skill set. Concentrate on the fundamentals at this point.

facelvega

First, I agree that HAVING FUN safely is the first priority.

Second, I had the same issues, and you can adjust the height of the brake pedal, instructions here.

Third (and better drivers than I may want to chime in on this), I would try to learn to drive with the HEEL of your right foot planted in front of the accelerator, not in front of the brake. Many folks naturally drive with the right heel in front of the brake, foot at a 45 degree angle to put toes on the gas. If you get used to heel in front of gas, then you are rotating your foot to the left to brake, which as suggested above, makes it easy to blip the throttle with your heel. The other big advantage to this is that when you are ready to learn left foot braking, your right foot is out of the way, managing the throttle. All of this becomes much easier, if from the beginning you start learning with your right heel in front of gas....

Bill Verburg

Don't know a thing about the newer cars but on the older ones a special gas pedal is needed, here's mine


YThat said the seat position makes a big difference, when the seat is back I H&T w/ the big toe on the brake and the rest of my size 13 on the gas, but move the seat up a bit so that you are up on the wheel, the geometry of the leg/foot changes so that the full fore foot is on the brake and the gas can still be operated w/ the heel. Sitting still in the pits this position feel awkward as he** but when on track it's the way to go. additionally you get a better angle on the wheel so the shoulder soreness I used to get goes away too. Now I need a halo to relieve the neck soreness.