Gofishracing

I didn't mean hammer on them- simply drive them. Which to me is bring the car up to temperature as on a warm up lap and of course a cool down lap after session. It may take a few sessions for the pads to come "alive" PFC don't really need bedding as Pagid and others. If you had other pads on the rotors that could be the issue as discussed. Hard to remove transfer from other brands of pads. No need to kibort them. Just take your time until the come around. It ok to use second gear as well in certain turns

points

A very wise,very old Rennlister coined the term "Kiborted"...I just used it cause its so appropriate.

ExMB

He says to himself while looking into the rearview mirror .

the_vetman

Umm....

Oh, the irony...

the_vetman

BTW, this^^.

Bob Rouleau

Mark, instead of Kiborting this thread,why not simply refer to PFC themselves? The link is to their bedding instructions.

http://www.pfcbrakes.com.au/techtips.php?pageId=18

mark kibort

well, thats an idea.. on the page, they speak of 2 laps min, plus additional laps to get the brakes to their ideal friction point.
Ive posted real life results , here on the thread. pics after one session and then after a race. even a video . real life , sometimes doesnt match manufacturer instructions and results. Anyone use Hoosier pressure setttings or michellin camber settings for all cars?

im not the one here advocating "go out and run the pads full force after a warm up lap before a race"... this is dangerous.
Nor, am i the one talking about coasting after you loose brakes , so you can shoot out the track gates out into public hyways. I do try and contribute safe driving and racing here.

see above

winders

Mark, Mark, Mark....

Read:

Bedding New Performance Friction Brake Pads

Motorsport

If the discs were previously being used with Performance Friction pads, then the bedding procedure will be achieved quickly with new PFC pads. If the discs were previously bedded using a different manufacturer's pads then the process will take slightly longer. Again, with brake cooling ducts open and fully functional, perform the following procedures.

On the first lap, perform several snubs with progressively higher pedal pressure and braking force and from higher speeds. You will feel the effectiveness of the brakes increase with each successive brake application. This should take 6 to 10 snubs per lap and is usually completed in one or two laps. If non-PFC friction materials were previously run on the discs then this procedure could take as many as three to five laps. This is because the non-PFC friction material transfer layer must first be cleaned from the disc and then a fresh layer must be imparted to the disc.


Okay. I was talking about using new PFC pads on rotors that had already been using that PFC compound. On a typical warm up lap I am doing at least 10 snubs and probably closer to 14. The weight of the car does not seem to be an issue. People I know that use PFC pads on heavier Porsches and BMWs all report the same things. The PFC pads require virtually no bedding to be race ready. New pads properly heated up on the warm up lap is all that is needed. The key is that the rotors already have a compatible transfer layer on them.

TXE36

I bet that is less dangerous than:

• Running on 7 year old tires.
• Running two piece rotors with attachment bolt cracks.
• Not properly checking lug nut torque.

IIRC, nobody simply advocated coasting after brake loss, only that attempting to slow down a car using the transmission at a particular point on a particular race track with a reputation for spinning cars into walls due to rear wheel lockups perhaps isn't a good idea.

You may very well think you are contributing to safe driving, but that won't be the case until you can master the art of three little words: "I was wrong".

Until you can do that, there is no reaching you. I mean come on, you can't even make it to "agree to disagree".

-Mike

993GT

quiet on track, very loud on street

noturavgm

Pad noise has always had a correlation to current rotor condition for me.

Bedded rotors, driving to the hotel or lunch at track event, no noise.

After a few days street driving, comically loud like a dump truck coming to a stop.

mark kibort

almost all racers willl get small cracks in their rotors. i got them on a new set. monitored them, with no change .not dangerous
advising someone to take a warm up lap to bed pads, is dangerous in my opinion, because i know the full deficiency of the pads until they are fully bedded. going half tilt, not so much
7 year old tires. really? steel belted Hoosiers with lots of tread left and no cracking, in or out kept at 70 degrees and wrapped in plastic? i think we can agree to disagree here, ive been doing that my entire racing career. tires are tough, as long as you dont expose them to sun and heat. not dangerous in my opinion
as far as lug nuts. steel lugs tightened by hand to a min of 90ft-lbs is hardly dangerous. you yourself said that with steel lugs and used "hardware" that might even be more than the forces of new . anyway, ive never had a lug come loose that ive tightened. never... never . and others showed that this is pretty easy to do. (tighten by hand to minimum values and without variance)

running a pad before bedded is dangerous. if you know what you are doing, its safer, but ive been on the outlap trying to bed and immediately got into a 1st lap battle. its VERY unnerving, until you can reduce temps for a few turns and then hit them again..... (either giving up to your competition or falling back a spot or two) its not safe and i dont recommend it. I recommend bedding the pads... Any pads, the way i suggested. two laps on the track (progressively harder) and rest a lap, or my secret street methodology.

as far as losing brakes.... yes, they all comented on that "particular turn" it doesnt matter. learn how do to it, or you will be out the gates and running over people.. downshifts dont create spins.. drivers do! learn how to blib downshift while you are aproaching the turn. rear braking forces, e brake etc, doesnt cause a spin... wannna see my 100mph ebrake pull on a closed street... complete with 90dgree turn? its pretty easy to do if you have the right instruction.
this isnt even the art of racing... its the art of DRIVING! car control folks! simple as that!

mark kibort

what kind of pads?? usually, the high metalic pads can do this if not bedded properly. (or early in their bed in process) ST41s come to mind

ST41s are the only pads that really made a grinding noise all the time. they chewed up the rotor. dont know what they use as material, but it was pretty aggressive. even more so than PFC01 or 11. could have been the used rotor i started with though... as as it wore the noise went away. (finished the bedding process)

Veloce Raptor

Some men, you just can't reach...

mark kibort

that's all you got Dave.... its all you got! sad!
i know the last posts were more than 2 sentences, so i might have lost you.
here is the message: Learn to read, think and drive!
its funny, when i see your picture posts.. all i can think of is how perfect they are to you. no on is saying im wrong Hos....
you go ahead and continue to advise folks that lose their brakes to "ride it out" HAHAHA.. oh yeah, short shift because the higher RPM is just "noise".
oh... dont down shift, to get in the proper RPM, because you will spin and hit a wall.

oh shoot... longer than 7 words... im sure i lost you! :roflmo: