CosmosMpower

Thanks that would be great if you could share.

996tnz

Yes, in a fire a combination of long sleeved and legged nomex underwear longjohns plus a properly treated (and not over laundered) SFI rated treated cotton suit should give you about the same protection as a 3 or 4 layer top level race suit.

If you live in cooler climes or else are the kind of person who only runs short sessions or is happy to pull off track early rather than try to complete your session if you get hot in that gear, then it'll do the job fine. But having run almost a season with that exact get up, I found myself leaving out the nomex bottom on really hot days and then - having suffered enough - bit the bullet and got a 3 layer nomex suit. I really just wanted to let the other people running longer out there in the heat know that a proper nomex multilayer is MUCH cooler to wear than a cotton one over nomex underclothes. You might think that 3 layers can't be cooler than 1 or 2 but the better suits have a much thinner and more open weave than the cotton ones. Nomex swells up in a fire anyway so the open weave doesn't compromise it.

So in summary - both set ups should perform in a fire, but they perform very differently on just a hot day at track. And once your brain overheats, your senses and reactions get slower and more muddled so those date-expired suits look like a great deal for casual track days.

Once I made the jump I was so surprised by the difference that I thought I should at least let people know, since I wish I'd made the change earlier myself.

ir_fuel

Had the same in my 996 Cup car. All went fine, until they red-flagged the session and I let go of the throttle to do a cool down. Seems my brain decided it was time for a cool down too. Never wanted to get out of the car that fast.
AiM logger showed 131F cabin temperature when checking the data afterwards, and I was driving for about 45 minutes.

ir_fuel

Or the opposite. Full race suit to go driving at 40mph in their new Ferrari 488

I think the risk you encounter a light accident on the street is bigger than the risk that you encounter a serious accident on track.
Why does that matter?
In a light accident on track you don't need a cage. This is needed when you are hitting stuff hard (or rolling over). Ok it can and does happen, but if you know yourself chances are rather small (but not to be neglected!).

Let's go to the street. You are driving a fully caged car (and that FIA approved padding doesn't change anything about this, mind you) on the street (where there are plenty of idiots driving around whilst texting, FB, drinking ....), without a helmet. You get into a light accident, lets say a collision at 20-30mph (frontal or sideways). Result: you bang your head against the cage, and that same car that protects you on the track just got you into hospital with a skull fracture.

One should never look at safety equipment as individual items one can cherry-pick. Most of that stuff is made to work together, e.g.:

you drive with 6 point harness, because that's safe. Well, not entirely unless you wear a HANS or Hybrid. Otherwise a normal belt + airbag can be better in case of impact.
you drive with 6 point harness and HANS. You need a cage, because without a cage you don't want to rollover and have the roof collapse on you when you are in your 6 point.

Just to say that sometimes one can make things worse without realizing it.

NotTheStig

I can't find the receipt with the name on it, but I want to say that it was 2nd Chance Racing Parts.

mglobe

I disagree wrt to helmet weight. A lighter helmet means less stress on the neck in the case of a wreck, and there are likely some cases where that could be a significant factor.

997rs4.0

Yep, everyone's use it different. Always pros and cons when it comes to tracking street cars.
I'm amazed with the difference in safety thinking in the US compared to Europe.
Not saying one is better than the other. Just so different.

Europe, Clubsport, 6 point and no Hans. A lot of front section metal from Motorsport division installed in street cars.
And big difference is no cell phones allowed. Only Bluetooth in car use. Way less rear ending at lights and stop signs.

US, aftermarket roll bar. 3 point or 6 point with Hans. On the street, a lot of drivers with a smart phone glued to their eyes.

Manifold

I did some estimation of risks and found that, in the US, per mile driven, on average (there's considerable variability), cars are damaged much more often on the track than on the road (so track insurance may be a good idea if you're not comfortable self-insuring), but people are injured or die at roughly similar rates on the track and the road (again, on average, per mile driven).

While average speeds on track are higher, these factors improve safety on the track compared to the road:

- Runoff areas of roads tend to be worse than tracks due to trees, utility poles, ditches, bridge abutments and piers, and other fixed objects close to the edge of the road

- We generally have better safety systems in cars on track (eg, mandatory helmets, and most experienced drivers will voluntarily choose to add harnesses, head/neck restraint, etc.)

- On-site emergency response at the track

- Only a small percentage of track incidents involve high-impact contact between cars, whereas on the road a substantial percentage of crashes involve serious T-bone, rear-ender, and head-on collisions between cars

In absolute terms, on track, the chance of damaging a car becomes significant as drivers rack up 100+ track days. The chance of minor injury in a track incident isn't low, but the chance of serious injury is low. The chance of fatality in a track incident is very low, but of course not zero; we do see a few track fatalities here and there, as happened recently, so it's wise to do what you can to improve your safety, balanced against considerations of road vs track use of a car, cost, etc. Using good judgment when driving on track also makes a big difference as far as reducing risk.

LuigiVampa

Yes, basic safety equipment is better than none.

Better to get a nomex long-sleeve shirt or a Traqgear shirt than to wear a cotton or polyester shirt. It won't melt to your skin.

We all make compromises at some point and have been known to wear a shortsleeved shirt at August DE events just so I don't sound like a complete hypocrite.

That being said, if I know I am going to be messing around with friends, pushing each other, I make sure to wear my firesuit. It helps to have a helmet blower and coolshirt as well!

JustinL

I actually have no problem with that. Guys driving within their limits with safety gear at a track day... Bring it on!

gbuff

+1....I've attended a few Ferrari events largely populated by older gentlemen with safety gear that are driving nowhere near their cars' capabilities, but are nonetheless enjoying themselves immensely.

Gary

JayG

ahh yes, electrics by Lucas, the Prince of Darkness

ir_fuel

Depends on the country. Where I live a front cage in a street car is illegal.

mrbill_fl

I think you can mitigate some of the risk by choosing which tracks you run, or not. fast tracks usually equates to more risk...

You can get a hybrid Head and neck support too. I wear an R3 H&N in 6 pt or 3 pt cars

9114609048

Would be great to hear some stories of driving 70s Porsche race cars. Lightweight nomex and coolshirts have softened us younger generation



Hello Audipwr1,



Not only, "lightweight nomex and coolshirts"...but power steering, power brakes, automatic gearboxes, air conditioning, computers and sanitized tracks, have made the driving easier for the "younger generation". However, there is no shame in progress and this is all part of the evolutionary process. Our cars in the '70s were crude wagons, compared to what you drive today, but ultra sophisticated when looked upon by drivers from the 40s.

A short story about a '70s race... and protective clothing.

Conditions at the Sebring 12 hr in '77 were miserable, temperatures were in the high 90s and the old 5.2 mile track was in ruins. Driving there was difficult. I started the race and mid way through that first stint I was cooked, but soldiered on until called in. Brad took over and I went to our motor home for a shower and rest. Only thirty minutes after getting out of the RSR, just as I was feeling better, one of our crew frantically banged on the door, rushed inside and yelled "Brad's coming in!". I quickly threw on my single layer driving suit, Adidas running shoes, grabbed my open face Bell helmet and sprinted to our pit. No Nomex underwear, balaclava or socks.


I got to our pit as Brad was being pulled out of the car, suffering from severe heat exhaustion. The car was topped off and I raced back into the fray, buckling up my lap belt, unzipping my suit and removing my gloves as I went. Luckily I found some relief and was able to drive for another couple of hours, while Brad recovered.


Brad drove very well after his early difficulty and we each had productive stints for the rest of the race, to win by five laps, driving 1217 miles, averaging 101 mph. I drove a total of almost eight hours and never had a worse experience in a car.


I am by no means endorsing that anyone strip off their safety gear. I did what I had to do, 38 years ago in order to continue in an important race. I didn't have much choice, but even in my single layer suit, I was still better protected than the Sebring drivers in the early '50s, who dressed in light overalls and wore crude helmets.