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I was inspired by the amount of feedback that was offered to a fellow rennlister for their video at Mid-Ohio. I know Grattan probably isn't as well known as Mid-Ohio, but I'm thankful for who can chime in...
My GoPro unfortunately died before my fastest lap of the session (just over 1.5 seconds quicker than this one). And I know where I can pick up some time in this video...but I'm curious to see what others call out. If you just want to tell me I suck...have at it...I already know
The car is a 2011 2.9L Cayman w/Pagid RS29s up front & stock-sized RS3s w/the majority of my season on them.
Last edited by dgm8138; 10-29-2015 at 01:35 PM.
Reason: add data
The blue line is reflective of the video above. The red is my best of the session. The blue line data should be synced on a second-by-second basis w/the video relatively well. I apologize that I can't overlay...I had multiple technology difficulties this track day.
I just started driving on the track 4 years ago and have driven Grattan 3 times each year for the last 4 years. Since I still have much room for improvement myself, I am not going to offer much specific feedback on your driving.
I see you stay in 3rd gear for turn #3 and #6. When I was driving my Audi TT (1.8L turbo 6 speed) I was able to stay in 3rd gear for those turns as the turbo and the lower gearing would allow enough drive up the hill between turn #3/4 and from turn 6 and through the bowl. Now that I am driving my 1987 911, I have to go to 2nd gear for those turns to get enough power.
Are you dropping RPM too much in those areas which is hindering your speed on the straights between turns 4-5 and 9-10? Maybe do a session where you drop to 2nd in those areas and compare time/data?
Now that I am driving my 1987 911, I have to go to 2nd gear for those turns to get enough power.
Are you dropping RPM too much in those areas which is hindering your speed on the straights between turns 4-5 and 9-10? Maybe do a session where you drop to 2nd in those areas and compare time/data?
You're absolutely right. My car bogs in 3rd going up the hill between 3 & 4 and through 6,7, &8. I tried shifting down to 2nd before turn 3 but found my speed over the jump would be lower. I think I have some work to do w/smooth throttle application. Shifting down in 6 is something I haven't tried in the Cayman yet. And now that I finally have some real seats and harnesses...this will be a lot easier. So I'll try that out.
It's a great little track. Hugely technical with lots of camber change and elevation.
As for tips; Grattan is a place where you can really cheat and use the elevation and cambers to carry a ton of speed. Turn 1 for example, you can get on throttle even sooner, as the entire exit of the corner is on camber and provides you a ton of extra grip.
Same goes for Turn 7 and the exit of Turn 4 (even though 4 is downhill there is a crest in the middle of the exit that helps load the car up).
Personally, I run a much different line than most people thru 5/6/7. I will run a late apex in 5 and run a more geometric line thru 6. It sacrifices some speed in 5, but is a net gain thru 6 and the entry of 7. 5 is a spot where a lot of people like to trail brake in and pinch the line in 6 gaining time on the way in and sacrificing time in 6. I found it is slightly quicker the other way around.
You're too far right on the entry to 10. You can cut that radius into the braking zone, but you shouldn't be all the way up against the grass on the inside. You need to open the radius up for corner entry, and then turn in early, as the track falls away severely as the apex. If you're too tight and late with the steering you have to over slow to get to the apex, or miss it completely.
It's a great little track. Hugely technical with lots of camber change and elevation.
My first DE was at Grattan. I didn't realize how spoiled I was until I started venturing elsewhere.
Originally Posted by 2BWise
As for tips; Grattan is a place where you can really cheat and use the elevation and cambers to carry a ton of speed. Turn 1 for example, you can get on throttle even sooner, as the entire exit of the corner is on camber and provides you a ton of extra grip..
So basically follow the sealant around turn 1? I started trail braking more as the session progressed. And I feel as though that was a bit of improvement. But this is a corner I never seem to feel content with.
Originally Posted by 2BWise
Same goes for Turn 7 and the exit of Turn 4 (even though 4 is downhill there is a crest in the middle of the exit that helps load the car up). Personally, I run a much different line than most people thru 5/6/7. I will run a late apex in 5 and run a more geometric line thru 6. It sacrifices some speed in 5, but is a net gain thru 6 and the entry of 7. 5 is a spot where a lot of people like to trail brake in and pinch the line in 6 gaining time on the way in and sacrificing time in 6. I found it is slightly quicker the other way around. .
I think I'm not quite far enough to the right to gain the most time through 5 and in my video I didn't take enough advantage of the camber in 7. I gained a fair chunk of time by straightening the transition between 6 & 7. And then using all of that extra grip due to camber to turn into 7. I've never driven this section with a throwaway corner. Though it's something I should certainly try.
Originally Posted by 2BWise
You're too far right on the entry to 10. You can cut that radius into the braking zone, but you shouldn't be all the way up against the grass on the inside. You need to open the radius up for corner entry, and then turn in early, as the track falls away severely as the apex. If you're too tight and late with the steering you have to over slow to get to the apex, or miss it completely.
So prior to this DE I was braking in a straight line towards the start of the sealant at 10. I didn't really like this line as I could just watch the majority of others drive away from me in the 10,11,12 section. After an earlier track walk, I decided to try and take advantage of some beneficial camber on that right side by the grass. It didn't work on the lap in the video. But later on I found a sweet spot and was able to rotate the car and get on the gas early. I could still improve but it felt great.
I've tried to do what you're suggesting, but it always felt a bit awkward. I probably just need practice some more.
Thank you for the feedback! It's now only going to be too long until I can apply it...
I'd also add that you seem to be turning your whole body rather than primarily via your arms only. Not sure how much this matters but Pros don't do this. Possibly affects your balance/viewpoint which compromises the end result.
I'd also add that you seem to be turning your whole body rather than primarily via your arms only. Not sure how much this matters but Pros don't do this. Possibly affects your balance/viewpoint which compromises the end result. Hardly having to change gear is weird...
That's a good observation. It might be a bad habit I've picked up from unsupportive seats and only stock belts. I don't have a whole lot of inertia 🙂. So I'm constantly fighting to stay upright in the seat. I'll finally have seats and harnesses next season. So I'll be sure to work on this.
I should be changing gear more often. The car
bogs in the 3-4 transition uphill and a bit through 5-6-7-8. I've been trying to work on timing w/brake application & lift off to rotate the car, being smooth, and my heel toe skills. I'll slowly start adding more shift points.
My first DE was at Grattan. I didn't realize how spoiled I was until I started venturing elsewhere.
So basically follow the sealant around turn 1? I started trail braking more as the session progressed. And I feel as though that was a bit of improvement. But this is a corner I never seem to feel content with.
We're pretty lucky in MI to have some pretty awesome tracks all within a 4 hr tow.
1 can be tough because everything past the apex is blind (as you're braking) due to the embankment, so it is easy to overslow. It is a great place to trail brake in. I wouldn't say that I actively try to follow the sealant on the exit, but I do end up on it completely by the time I've fully tracked out. It is a bit deceiving visually, but once you make the apex you can immediately go WOT (assuming you won't wheelspin) and then the banking will catch you.
Does anyone else here drive a 987.2 Cayman at Grattan/Gingerman/Putnam/Mid-Ohio? it'd be wonderful to get a ride w/someone else who pilots one of these.
I just reviewed the thread again because there is finally another Grattan track event coming up for me in May. Thanks again for all of the feedback!
10-28-2015, 10:00 PM
Grattan Video -- Does anyone have input to offer?
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