"E" and "D" class?
04-05-2015, 08:54 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
If it were only that easy. For a road car you can emulate one pretty easily, to be a PCA Stock E legal car it is neither easy nor inexpensive to go from Stock D US SC to Stock E Euro SC... Remember it's only the 81-83 Euro that is an E car. Maybe Doug will chime in. I bet there have been plenty of "emulated" Euro SC's running in D at one time or another... 
Tom, Clarke just converted his D car GT3DE I hit him up.
Love Eclass racing so far.
04-05-2015, 09:18 PM
#32
Drifting
converted my D to E last summer. It's is a 1978 configured as Euro SC 3.0L. Had to change pistons/cylinders and injection system for higher compression. Cost was $10,000ish.
Was at Summit Point yesterday getting car checked out in preparation for Monticello in a few weeks. It was a pca DE so lots of traffic. The ONE free lap all day I did a 1:23.7, about 0.8 slower than Evan Close's track record. Last fall at the pca race in qualifying, Evan took the pole and I was 0.008 slower. Evan has been at the E game for a while. I am a recent convert to junker antique momentum racing. I would say 3.2 vs 3.0L, have to give it to the 3.0L. I think if Evan and I switched cars the gap would be greater.
Overall, only a few races a year have more than 1 or 2 D cars but most races have double digit E cars. The biggest races have as many as 30 E cars - Sebring, WGI come to mind.
My take on E class racing:
Cheapest 911 you can buy.
Cheapest 911 race car.
Cheapest 911 to race.
3.0 euro sc over 3.2.
E is biggest average field of 911 in pca.
I have raced in D, E, G, Gt2, gta2, all in 911 race cars only (not trying to start debated about 911 vs other Porsche models, just 911 is the only Porsche for me), and funnest has been in E. Lots of cars with close racing - max fun.
Was at Summit Point yesterday getting car checked out in preparation for Monticello in a few weeks. It was a pca DE so lots of traffic. The ONE free lap all day I did a 1:23.7, about 0.8 slower than Evan Close's track record. Last fall at the pca race in qualifying, Evan took the pole and I was 0.008 slower. Evan has been at the E game for a while. I am a recent convert to junker antique momentum racing. I would say 3.2 vs 3.0L, have to give it to the 3.0L. I think if Evan and I switched cars the gap would be greater.
Overall, only a few races a year have more than 1 or 2 D cars but most races have double digit E cars. The biggest races have as many as 30 E cars - Sebring, WGI come to mind.
My take on E class racing:
Cheapest 911 you can buy.
Cheapest 911 race car.
Cheapest 911 to race.
3.0 euro sc over 3.2.
E is biggest average field of 911 in pca.
I have raced in D, E, G, Gt2, gta2, all in 911 race cars only (not trying to start debated about 911 vs other Porsche models, just 911 is the only Porsche for me), and funnest has been in E. Lots of cars with close racing - max fun.
04-05-2015, 09:19 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
I don't think the G50 is a benefit at all. While initially more durable it costs about twice as much to rebuild and adds weight. A dyno tuned 3.2 with custom chip can put out over 220 WHP and over 200 WTQ. That's pretty stout in a 2780 lb (with driver) car. Our D Stock SC's with fresh rebuilds were lucky to approach 190 WHP and 175 WTQ and are only 75 lb lighter. Before the chip the cars were a lot more equal (hence you would see a D car take an overall win if no Euro SC's were involved) but the Euro SC was king, now it's challenged by the best 3.2's with good drivers. Still comes down to the driver!
04-05-2015, 09:49 PM
#34
04-05-2015, 10:08 PM
#37
I don't think the G50 is a benefit at all. While initially more durable it costs about twice as much to rebuild and adds weight. A dyno tuned 3.2 with custom chip can put out over 220 WHP and over 200 WTQ. That's pretty stout in a 2780 lb (with driver) car. Our D Stock SC's with fresh rebuilds were lucky to approach 190 WHP and 175 WTQ and are only 75 lb lighter. Before the chip the cars were a lot more equal (hence you would see a D car take an overall win if no Euro SC's were involved) but the Euro SC was king, now it's challenged by the best 3.2's with good drivers. Still comes down to the driver!
In a pristine world, with drivers of equal skill, a "momentum" car can set equal lap times with a "HP" car.
But in tactical racing, where you need to cut through slower traffic, and pass off-line, torque, gears, and HP beat "momentum" every time.
04-05-2015, 10:39 PM
#38
The majority of E class track records have been set by Euro SC's
Track Class Name Lap Time Date Session
E BRIAN FORSYTHE 1:37.898 2013-06-23 Practice
Auto Club E BOB JONES 1:57.151 2011-04-10 Qualifying
Autobahn E MARK T HUPFER 1:38.015 2006-06-09 Practice
Barber E MARK T HUPFER 1:41.314 2007-03-11 Qualifying
Blackhawk Farms E TRISTAN WHITEHEAD 1:20.374 2007-09-30 Qualifying
Brainerd E KEVIN CYR 1:49.362 2013-07-27 Qualifying
Buttonwillow E BOB JONES 2:15.705 2012-11-03 Sprint Race
CMP E MARK HUPFER 1:45.624 2012-10-26 Qualifying
COTA E JIM BUCKLEY 2:32.230 2013-05-11 Qualifying
Daytona E MARK HUPFER 2:09.639 2012-10-06 Qualifying
Eagles Canyon E JEFF WIGGINS 2:00.248 2011-10-29 Practice
Gingerman E GREG TUREK 1:42.834 2013-06-15 Qualifying
Gingerman - Old Course E SLAWEK RUSZEL 1:33.399 2009-07-05 Practice
Grand Bayou E BRUCE BUSBY 1:21.482 2010-04-17 Practice
Hallett E NIELS MEISSNER 1:24.213 2014-10-05 Sprint Race
Hastings E CHAD *** 1:37.305 2013-06-02 Qualifying
Heartland E MIKE COURTNEY 1:38.566 2004-10-30 Qualifying
High Plains E CHAD *** 2:01.871 2013-08-18 Qualifying
Laguna Seca E KERRY BROWN 1:44.483 2011-10-15 Qualifying
Las Vegas E JESSE D WURMBRAND 2:03.351 2005-05-08 Qualifying
Lime Rock E FRED CONSTANTINEAU 59.231 2011-04-29 Practice
Mid-America E MIKE COURTNEY 1:43.474 2006-06-03 Qualifying
Mid-Ohio E MARK T HUPFER 1:40.801 2007-05-19 Sprint Race
Mid-Ohio Pro Course E MARK HUPFER 1:38.467 2012-08-17 Practice
Miller E CHAD *** 3:18.157 2013-09-22 Sprint Race
Monticello E CHRISTOPHER FAHY 2:43.436 2014-10-10 Practice
Mosport E KARL W POELTL 1:36.359 2007-07-29 Practice
MotorSport Ranch E JIM BUCKLEY 1:20.370 2012-10-27 Practice
NJMP Lightning E CHRIS REINSBOROUGH 1:16.035 2008-09-14 Enduro Race
NJMP Thunderbolt E EVAN CLOSE 1:32.028 2014-08-23 Sprint Race
NJMP Thunderbolt with Chicane E ULI FURTMAIR 1:37.130 2010-07-18 Qualifying
No Problem E JAMES H BUCKLEY 1:20.389 2008-11-23 Qualifying
NOLA E JIM BUCKLEY 1:56.242 2013-04-20 Sprint Race
NOLA - Indy Circuit E NIELS MEISSNER 1:56.273 2015-03-01 Sprint Race
PIR E NORMAL HAMDEN 1:11.173 2004-02-15 Sprint Race
Pueblo E JESSE D WURMBRAND 1:43.124 2007-09-15 Practice
Putnam E MARK HUPFER 1:17.428 2013-08-17 Practice
Road America E MARK HUPFER 2:34.243 2013-08-31 Practice
Road Atlanta E MARK HUPFER 1:37.438 2013-03-22 Practice
Roebling Road E CORY FRIEDMAN 1:19.320 2006-12-02 Practice
Sebring E MARK HUPFER 2:26.953 2013-02-02 Qualifying
Spring Mountain E BOB JONES 2:16.357 2013-05-05 Sprint Race
Summit Point E EVAN CLOSE 1:22.935 2013-09-29 Sprint Race
TMW E F. GRAYDON THORNE 1:37.056 2004-07-10 Qualifying
TWS E JIM BUCKLEY 1:53.274 2015-03-15 Sprint Race
VIR E JIM BUCKLEY 2:10.830 2014-06-22 Enduro Race
Watkins Glen E MARK HUPFER 2:10.277 2012-06-02 Sprint Race
Track Class Name Lap Time Date Session
E BRIAN FORSYTHE 1:37.898 2013-06-23 Practice
Auto Club E BOB JONES 1:57.151 2011-04-10 Qualifying
Autobahn E MARK T HUPFER 1:38.015 2006-06-09 Practice
Barber E MARK T HUPFER 1:41.314 2007-03-11 Qualifying
Blackhawk Farms E TRISTAN WHITEHEAD 1:20.374 2007-09-30 Qualifying
Brainerd E KEVIN CYR 1:49.362 2013-07-27 Qualifying
Buttonwillow E BOB JONES 2:15.705 2012-11-03 Sprint Race
CMP E MARK HUPFER 1:45.624 2012-10-26 Qualifying
COTA E JIM BUCKLEY 2:32.230 2013-05-11 Qualifying
Daytona E MARK HUPFER 2:09.639 2012-10-06 Qualifying
Eagles Canyon E JEFF WIGGINS 2:00.248 2011-10-29 Practice
Gingerman E GREG TUREK 1:42.834 2013-06-15 Qualifying
Gingerman - Old Course E SLAWEK RUSZEL 1:33.399 2009-07-05 Practice
Grand Bayou E BRUCE BUSBY 1:21.482 2010-04-17 Practice
Hallett E NIELS MEISSNER 1:24.213 2014-10-05 Sprint Race
Hastings E CHAD *** 1:37.305 2013-06-02 Qualifying
Heartland E MIKE COURTNEY 1:38.566 2004-10-30 Qualifying
High Plains E CHAD *** 2:01.871 2013-08-18 Qualifying
Laguna Seca E KERRY BROWN 1:44.483 2011-10-15 Qualifying
Las Vegas E JESSE D WURMBRAND 2:03.351 2005-05-08 Qualifying
Lime Rock E FRED CONSTANTINEAU 59.231 2011-04-29 Practice
Mid-America E MIKE COURTNEY 1:43.474 2006-06-03 Qualifying
Mid-Ohio E MARK T HUPFER 1:40.801 2007-05-19 Sprint Race
Mid-Ohio Pro Course E MARK HUPFER 1:38.467 2012-08-17 Practice
Miller E CHAD *** 3:18.157 2013-09-22 Sprint Race
Monticello E CHRISTOPHER FAHY 2:43.436 2014-10-10 Practice
Mosport E KARL W POELTL 1:36.359 2007-07-29 Practice
MotorSport Ranch E JIM BUCKLEY 1:20.370 2012-10-27 Practice
NJMP Lightning E CHRIS REINSBOROUGH 1:16.035 2008-09-14 Enduro Race
NJMP Thunderbolt E EVAN CLOSE 1:32.028 2014-08-23 Sprint Race
NJMP Thunderbolt with Chicane E ULI FURTMAIR 1:37.130 2010-07-18 Qualifying
No Problem E JAMES H BUCKLEY 1:20.389 2008-11-23 Qualifying
NOLA E JIM BUCKLEY 1:56.242 2013-04-20 Sprint Race
NOLA - Indy Circuit E NIELS MEISSNER 1:56.273 2015-03-01 Sprint Race
PIR E NORMAL HAMDEN 1:11.173 2004-02-15 Sprint Race
Pueblo E JESSE D WURMBRAND 1:43.124 2007-09-15 Practice
Putnam E MARK HUPFER 1:17.428 2013-08-17 Practice
Road America E MARK HUPFER 2:34.243 2013-08-31 Practice
Road Atlanta E MARK HUPFER 1:37.438 2013-03-22 Practice
Roebling Road E CORY FRIEDMAN 1:19.320 2006-12-02 Practice
Sebring E MARK HUPFER 2:26.953 2013-02-02 Qualifying
Spring Mountain E BOB JONES 2:16.357 2013-05-05 Sprint Race
Summit Point E EVAN CLOSE 1:22.935 2013-09-29 Sprint Race
TMW E F. GRAYDON THORNE 1:37.056 2004-07-10 Qualifying
TWS E JIM BUCKLEY 1:53.274 2015-03-15 Sprint Race
VIR E JIM BUCKLEY 2:10.830 2014-06-22 Enduro Race
Watkins Glen E MARK HUPFER 2:10.277 2012-06-02 Sprint Race
But none the less, a 1.23 at SP is pretty awesome regardless of what you are driving.
04-05-2015, 11:01 PM
#39
Pro
Can we all just agree that all smurf blue cars can have another 30whp and run 200lbs lighter? Please. (More likely than removing my passenger seat or vent window).
Last edited by Jas0nn; 04-05-2015 at 11:44 PM.
04-05-2015, 11:55 PM
#40
04-06-2015, 12:04 AM
#41
Rennlist Member
If it cost half but is needed 2x as often..
G50 properly used rarely if ever needs a rebuild?
Why does it matter that it ads weight? Even my lard *** needs to add balast anyways.
It's mostly driver, much more so than many other race venues, that's the fun of Ecar PCA..and you're still able to run a 911
Last edited by TRAKCAR; 04-06-2015 at 08:37 AM.
04-06-2015, 09:30 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
04-06-2015, 10:03 AM
#43
Addict
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Right now based on car counts at the bigger races, more cars in E than in D. Seems like the current numbers show that the places to race an air cooled 911 are E in a Euro SC or 3.2 Carrera, or G in a 964. Man I miss my 3.2 Carrera...
04-06-2015, 10:20 AM
#44
Rennlist Member
