Add weight to SPB?!?!?!
08-20-2014, 09:01 AM
#6
Burning Brakes
You're just starting to understand how most in SM feel. I had to add 110# to make weight in my car (2400#) AND add a restrictor plate. Guess those 3 gerbils were breathing too healthily. All done for class parity reasons, but it still hurt to do it. Goes against all my instincts.
08-20-2014, 10:07 AM
#7
Rennlist Member
Works for me. I will be voting yes for it. My car is 100lbs overweight with no chance of ever being close to the current weight limit.
Other who I know are over weight are in the same boat as me. It my roll cage that is mostly responsible for the extra weight in that car. That, and I am a 6'2". After bouncing off the wall at VIR, there is no way I am removing cage to make weight.
My other comment would be that 50lbs of additional weight, really won't hurt the cars performance. The lightest my car has weighed was 70lbs over weight. We also know my car is down hp vs other SPB's that have seen the same dyno as mine. It has not however seemed to affect the ability for the car to get to the front. As a spec class, we shouldn't care what the weight is, because it effects all of us the same. But if it even better levels the class (because 50% of the class is already overweight), won't that just improve the competition and racing in the class and not hurt it?
Other who I know are over weight are in the same boat as me. It my roll cage that is mostly responsible for the extra weight in that car. That, and I am a 6'2". After bouncing off the wall at VIR, there is no way I am removing cage to make weight.
My other comment would be that 50lbs of additional weight, really won't hurt the cars performance. The lightest my car has weighed was 70lbs over weight. We also know my car is down hp vs other SPB's that have seen the same dyno as mine. It has not however seemed to affect the ability for the car to get to the front. As a spec class, we shouldn't care what the weight is, because it effects all of us the same. But if it even better levels the class (because 50% of the class is already overweight), won't that just improve the competition and racing in the class and not hurt it?
Last edited by mmuller; 08-20-2014 at 01:03 PM. Reason: Spelling
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08-20-2014, 11:51 AM
#8
Drifting
PCA keeps a log of all the weights -- would be interesting to see the distribution.
I must have pushed over the scales at least 30 SPB at COTA this year.
Mike
I must have pushed over the scales at least 30 SPB at COTA this year.
Mike
08-20-2014, 07:03 PM
#10
Perfect Angel
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So if you are 100 over and winning why do you care? And you made a decision that makes the car heavier. That's something you'll have to work out for yourself. I understand why you did it and it's not a criticism but why penalize others who got closer to the 2650? Others put in coolers that weight X and that also adds fluids that weigh X etc. Those are the choice you make.
50 pounds will make a difference. My concern is with getting through traffic with an even worse power to weight and less torque than most of the other cars we run with like E and D. Depending on the scale at different races I've been 30 under, 4 over, 50 over. It's a crap shoot.
The "I can't make weight" complaint exists in every class. I know E, SP drivers and GTB drivers who are scratching their heads on how to get more weight out of their cars. I do't think I've ever heard anyone not tell me their car wasn't heavy for their class. SPB is no different.
There are a whole lot of cars built to the 2650 rule. I see no need to change.
50 pounds will make a difference. My concern is with getting through traffic with an even worse power to weight and less torque than most of the other cars we run with like E and D. Depending on the scale at different races I've been 30 under, 4 over, 50 over. It's a crap shoot.
The "I can't make weight" complaint exists in every class. I know E, SP drivers and GTB drivers who are scratching their heads on how to get more weight out of their cars. I do't think I've ever heard anyone not tell me their car wasn't heavy for their class. SPB is no different.
There are a whole lot of cars built to the 2650 rule. I see no need to change.
08-20-2014, 07:54 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
So if you are 100 over and winning why do you care? And you made a decision that makes the car heavier. That's something you'll have to work out for yourself. I understand why you did it and it's not a criticism but why penalize others who got closer to the 2650? Others put in coolers that weight X and that also adds fluids that weigh X etc. Those are the choice you make.
50 pounds will make a difference. My concern is with getting through traffic with an even worse power to weight and less torque than most of the other cars we run with like E and D. Depending on the scale at different races I've been 30 under, 4 over, 50 over. It's a crap shoot.
The "I can't make weight" complaint exists in every class. I know E, SP drivers and GTB drivers who are scratching their heads on how to get more weight out of their cars. I do't think I've ever heard anyone not tell me their car wasn't heavy for their class. SPB is no different.
There are a whole lot of cars built to the 2650 rule. I see no need to change.
50 pounds will make a difference. My concern is with getting through traffic with an even worse power to weight and less torque than most of the other cars we run with like E and D. Depending on the scale at different races I've been 30 under, 4 over, 50 over. It's a crap shoot.
The "I can't make weight" complaint exists in every class. I know E, SP drivers and GTB drivers who are scratching their heads on how to get more weight out of their cars. I do't think I've ever heard anyone not tell me their car wasn't heavy for their class. SPB is no different.
There are a whole lot of cars built to the 2650 rule. I see no need to change.
I was just stating two facts that would have me agree with the argument to add weight. 1) I don't believe it will hurt performance based on results and 2) it would further level the class. Most cars I see overweight complain its in the cage. So people are making decisions that are potentially safety related because of 50lbs? That doesn't seem the right balance to me.
I also don't agree with the aguement the car will be worse in traffic. Watch my Lime rock and Watkins Glen video and tell me if my consistently 100lbs overweight car is having trouble with passing cars in traffic.
I believe the weight would achieve bringing the class closer to its stated goal of parity and highlighting the driving more and less of the car itself. 2650 is an achievable weight, yes. But if your a big guy or want to run coolers so you don't blow stuff up your at a disadvantage. This lets everyone have access to all the same stuff at more realistic weight amount that has been proven to not have a great effect in performance.
And no, I did not submit for this rule change. I do care however because it's the class I choose to race in and any change to it effects me. Personally, I would like to see the addition of an LSD as well as the weight change as an LSD would make the car more stable to drive and allow more drivers to feel confident at the limit. The 50lbs would offset the addition of the LSD and the end result would be closer racing at the front of the pack.
08-20-2014, 09:26 PM
#12
Perfect Angel
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Which overweight scrute just bought an SPB? 
I understand what you are saying.
If there is no performance degradation so what would be the point of putting everyone thru the hassle? If there is no performance disadvantage then go ahead and put every bell and whistle on the car and race it above 2650.
I've never been to LR but the Glen is a much easier passing situation then some other tracks we go to due to the width and high speed nature of the corners which is our strength. See my video from VIR as an example.
And what parity issues are you seeing? I can honestly say I've never run into an SPB that just flat drove away from me on a straight unless they beat me in the corner. I've had many nose to tail laps with two or 3 SPBs lap after lap. The cars are very closely matched. When I get beat it's into the turn when my skirt billows up in front of my eyes or in the brake zone.
When I bought my car I had a cage builder look it over and ended up taking his advice and added a cross bar to the roof and footwell protection. I also added nerf bars to protect rads and the trans. Decisions I made that added weight to the car.
I just don't think that the build decisions or physical aspects of a few drivers should dictate what everyone else does.
If you want to race a 2700 lb car with an LSD you have your choice of 911 SC in D or E. In fact I think that's exactly what you should do
If anything we should be talking about allowing a wheel change since the factory wheels are heavy and getting hard to find at a reasonable price. I've done no research on options but eventually we're going to have to roam parking garages for wheels to boost.
Another suggestion would be to allow lighter body panels. I wouldn't need to do that unless I wanted to and then ballast back up but it's a thought.
I understand what you are saying.
If there is no performance degradation so what would be the point of putting everyone thru the hassle? If there is no performance disadvantage then go ahead and put every bell and whistle on the car and race it above 2650.
I've never been to LR but the Glen is a much easier passing situation then some other tracks we go to due to the width and high speed nature of the corners which is our strength. See my video from VIR as an example.
And what parity issues are you seeing? I can honestly say I've never run into an SPB that just flat drove away from me on a straight unless they beat me in the corner. I've had many nose to tail laps with two or 3 SPBs lap after lap. The cars are very closely matched. When I get beat it's into the turn when my skirt billows up in front of my eyes or in the brake zone.
When I bought my car I had a cage builder look it over and ended up taking his advice and added a cross bar to the roof and footwell protection. I also added nerf bars to protect rads and the trans. Decisions I made that added weight to the car.
I just don't think that the build decisions or physical aspects of a few drivers should dictate what everyone else does.
If you want to race a 2700 lb car with an LSD you have your choice of 911 SC in D or E. In fact I think that's exactly what you should do
If anything we should be talking about allowing a wheel change since the factory wheels are heavy and getting hard to find at a reasonable price. I've done no research on options but eventually we're going to have to roam parking garages for wheels to boost.
Another suggestion would be to allow lighter body panels. I wouldn't need to do that unless I wanted to and then ballast back up but it's a thought.
08-21-2014, 11:44 PM
#13
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