KaiB

NASA Summer Shootout, big race, record crowd (although Matus and the big CO GTS BMWs were missing) and a very well run event. Kudos to NASA TX and Central divisions. My first big NASA race weekend.

Infield and paddock looked like SCCA twenty years ago; all kinds of people and tents and cars.

My race group varied from monster 700hp NASCAR things, to big Corvettes and Vipers, a super Lotus, Porsches, BMWs , my little red car and many slower cars. NO ISSUES at all despite side by side racing, the speed differentials and differing groups.

These guys seem to understand the concept of "sharing" the race track despite tremendous competition. Along the lines of Peter K's. posts in the VIR thread, as a whole, the NASA guys will continue to race while leaving room for a good driver or (perhaps) faster car to work to get by.

Nobody went off first lap(s) due to pushing cold slicks. I believe this is due to awareness, experience, caution and care for the race and others racing....and the fact that the pace truck actually went quickly enough to allow us to get a real chance to get heat into the tires. After the pace truck went off, the front of the pack kept the pace up, allowing continuing work, but nonetheless the group held together just fine.

Situational awareness seemed to be FAR higher with these folks than with many PCA races.

I NOW HONESTLY BELIEVE (and have observed) the NASA training and DE/TT culture creates a better class of racer than the PCA DE paradigm. We all know why and it is up to us to help promulgate changes in the late phases of PCA DE training and initial race certification.

LuigiVampa

Most of my experience between NASA and PCA comes from DE although I have attended a race as a spectator/corner worker for each.

I started with PDA back in 2004 and continued with them when they merged with NASA. I've been running with the CVR region of PCA for the last three years but still continue to do a NASA day or so once a year.

Some observations:

PDA/NASA used to be a little more like the wild west but I think they are a professional organization now. That being said, I think they promote people in run groups a lot quicker than CVR. Perhaps to quickly.

Most of my PCA experience is with CVR and a few runs with NY Metro. CVR is extremely strict on promoting people. When I first ran with them and they threw me in green I howled that I had been soloing with NASA for years. Nope. You are green. I got bumped to yellow instructed pretty quickly but it took a while before I got to yellow solo (orange). Finally made it to white this year.

You know what? I'm exactly where I should be right now and CVR had it correct all along.

Bottom line, NASA is a little more NASCAR and PCA is a little bit more Le Mans/Grand Am/Tudor in terms of who attends and how they are run. Not saying one is more or less professional but I give the nod to PCA CVR for being a little safer in how they promote people.

Just my two cents.

gt2urbo

Rather race with nasa. some of the heads and stewards of PCA think they a re better than the members.
They take attendees for granted.

ProCoach

First off, remember that NASA sells area (Region) for-profit franchises built upon Jerry Kunzman's successful West Coast model. Your results and experience may vary...

By and large, I think perceptions are worth what you pay for them UNLESS you went to the event and reported back, like KaiB did.

NASA's "reputation" and culture is different for each Region. They basically ate SCCA for lunch, just because they offer "cradle to grave" on-track events at THE SAME event.

A n00b can run HPDE 1 and hang with his friends who are doing TT or racing. It's good, and inclusive. Plus, they'll find a place for just about anything to run.

Scrutineering? Less so. You pay your money and you make your choice, but there are MANY options for drivers these days. It's not when you race, it's which race you want to go to on any given weekend!

pmason

Interesting topic, my only issue has been the number of PCA races within decent driving radius. I'm seriously thinking about building a spec miata and running with NASA or SCCA as the number of races within the region is much greater than PCA. Other than that my experience the PCA has been all positive. At the same time I know that PCA is focus on the national view and not a regional view. It didn't help that that this year PCA cancelled both Gingerman and Putnum.

Tom W

Speaking for what I see on the West coast, I think the organization and the racers (people) both play a role. Out here it's pretty much the same folk racing at either NASA or PCA with a few that just race NASA and won't race PCA and a few of the opposite. I think it's obvious that NASA is a for-profit group as they have much more user friendly procedures (got to love the cancellation policy). I think our experience is a bit different as we pretty much run our own group within NASA (Porsche only run groups and our own scrutineers, etc).

Both good organizations, just different, with NASA being a bit more relaxed and accommodating. Out here we also have many more NASA events than PCA and NASA events are much larger (more people and more racers).

I did head out to the Midwest last year and ran PCA's Road America race and that was a lot of fun and much bigger event than PCA on the West Coast. I'll be doing that again this year, it's worth it.

Blitz128

I"ve raced with NASA and PCA and agree with Kai with regard to our region area...TX, OK etc... NASA runs great events as does PCA... I enjoy NASA as they provide additional regional race opportunities The idea that NASA racing is the wild wild west etc is a bunch of baloney in Texas area. NASA in our region race the same tracks as PCA... race both organizations and double your fun plus I enjoy watching some of the American Iron and muscle car groups race in downtime from my own racing... it is a great mix of racing and people doing what we love.

KaiB

Agreed.

I enjoyed watching three AI/CMC races, all very close and all great racing. Racers watching out for themselves and the other guy while maintaining position and speed.

Dammed if I don't have the race video (card was full) of me three inches behind a Vette for 10 laps. Could NOT find a way around him and he never screwed up an inch despite the little red car in his mirrors the entire time. (thus the 22.s, Viking)

jrgordonsenior

Not so out west. Their annual tech is comprehensive and as tough as any I've ever experienced....

As far the racing goes, I really enjoy hearing the sounds of the Corvettes and other monster V8's out on track with me. My ST2 class is full of T1 Corvettes expatriates and they're all excellent racers. Fun as hell and I'm looking forward to getting back out with them with my new motor (again) shortly...

NaroEscape

Unfortunately, I think the way a NASA event is run is completely dependent on the region running it.

My perception is the absolute complete opposite - I will NEVER run a NASA race, I see way too much cavalier attitude toward contact and the acceptance of 'rubbin is racin' theory.

Example (yes, I was at this race observing): two of my buddies, both running RS Americas, ran a NASA race here in the Southeast. One of them was T-Boned going into Turn 1 by a Mustang. He was able to pull off and drive through an escape route back to the paddock. He went to the race control - figuring he had to go talk to someone and see what's up - and they asked "why are you here?" He said 'Um...I was hit in Turn 1, where the driver that hit me?" Was told "Oh, he's still out running, his car is OK" !!!

Not 3 laps later, he T-Boned THE OTHER RSAmerica driver, same turn. When THAT driver came in (got towed) he wanted to know WTF. "oh, he must be having brake problems, he's a good driver so it can't be his fault"...and he was STILL ALLOWED TO RACE!!!

$25k worth of damage he caused between the two cars, and the offending driver got maybe a slap on the wrist.(his car destroyed the bumper cover...which had a crash bar underneath)

Sorry...not interested.

ProCoach

Florida, Southeast and Mid Atlantic are all different.

DDun911

I have had good experience with both groups here in the ne. overall i would say Pca guys tend to have more track hours before racing but there is always the exception. nasa co existence rules make more Sence but again less hours on some of the drivers.

mglobe

Same in TX, and wrt scrutineering, I've seen SM racers be required to pull remove restrictor plates and shocks to show that they are complying with the rules.

As far as how NASA regions are run, I've only run with SE, with TX, and at Nationals. The events I've been to are well run, there is lots of emphasis on safety, and they are a hell of a lot of fun. Great cars and people.

Weston Dillard

PCA national sanctions the races and supplies national personnel to run them, but local Regions (or in some cases Zones) actually secure the contract with the track and organize the event. It was unfortunate that those regions did not host an event this year. I worked Putnam a couple years back and it was great. Hopefully both will be back on the calendar soon.

West

flatsics

Come on Kai,

What have you done 3 or 4 races with PCA?

Eagles Canyon, Hastings, and Hallet...

What makes you think you are an authority on PCA racers?

Did you actually stay for the whole NASA event?