Tim Webb

Impressive cage.

audipwr1

thanks guys - I agree prebuilt M3 is the way to go. Looking at a few in the high 20 low 30 range - all look like solid mid-pack cars

Carrera51

Wow, that car on the NASA site looks like a really nice build!

As far as costs of running a 6 or 7 Cup vs a converted street car built to be optimized for the class it's running in, are the costs really that different? Cost of entry on a 6 or 7.1 Cup, about $50-85K based on current market prices. Run on slicks at $2300 a set, 100 octane fuel, has big brakes that require expensive pads, $25-30K to rebuild the engine, $8-17K for a gearbox rebuild depending on if it's a 6 or 7 Cup.

On a shop built car like the one in the link, say $50-100K (high end based on the price of that particular car. sure there are decent cars out there in the $20-35K range, but they are probably not built to the level of the BMW in the link above, or a 6 or 7.1 Cup. It runs on 100 octane gas, and has big expensive brakes. Tires would depend on which GTS class trim you'd run it in so tires could be slicks or DOT so $1200 to $2300 a set. Sure a junkyard S54 would be way less than a 6 or 7 Cup rebuild, but a build like that probably has a built S54. Don't know BMW rebuild costs, but if front running spec Miata guys are dropping $15K into their engines, then a built S54 I think would cost at least $20K. If I am high I apologize.

I would bet in the end, when you factor in the cost to get in, along with operating costs, then resale value on the back end, it's probably pretty close with the edge in resale going to a Cup since it is after all, a factory built race car. I would apply the same analogy comparing a 6 or 7 Cup to the Caymans being built and run in PCA GTB1.

winders

Mark,

It's not even close. Anyone that thinks the cost to buy and run a Cup Car would be anywhere near the same as to buy and run a well built and competitive BMW is just plain off base. Yes, this is with the resale value factored in.

audipwr1

I'd love to convince myself of this as I want a 996 cup

Smack a panel - lots of cheap bmw bumpers in junk yard

Sure u can do a 30k m3 rebuild - but u can also do a 10k junkyard special - cup car is 30k only option - same with gearbox

NASA you just need a slightly overpowered motor you can detune to make class - so a super special motor less needed

Carrera51

Scott:
I see your point, but look at the numbers I put up. They are not that far off. Guys are building $100-$120K Caymans and E46 M3s to race. 100 octane gas costs the same for both. Tires costs are close. Engine rebuilds are more expensive on a Cup compared to a GTB Cayman but I bet not as much as you think. Even if you go crate motor from the dealer, I heard Cayman motors are running around $18K+, plus the core charge or 7-8K. What's a rebuild on a 6 Cup engine $25K (if the motor didn't blow up). Plus, I don't think I have seen a 6 or a 7 in club racing just blow an engine. I know nothing about building an M3 engine so I can only guess on the numbers.

Yes, if you bust a 7 Cup gearbox, get the vaseline out for sure. Then when it comes time to get out, as long as neither car has been wrecked hard, the converted street car will have depreciated way more.

winders

Mark,

First of all, let's stop assuming the entry price for a Cup Car is for a newly built car with fresh engine and trans. Most Cup Cars I have seen for the prices you quote are near the end of their engine and trans life. Certainly not fresh, that is for sure.

Buying an already built competitive BMW is not going to cost $100K. You are buying it for 50 cents on the dollar. When you sell it, the big depreciation hit as already happened so the hit for you will be much smaller.

You need to get out and compare engine and trans rebuild/replace costs between Cup Cars and BMWs. The difference is insane. So are the costs for brake components. And suspension components. Everything is more expensive on the Cup Car. It gets even worse if you compare the costs to repair a damaged race car.

I know you guys would like the costs to be in the same ball park. But the simple fact is that they are not....and it is not even close.

Carrera51

Scott:
I know we could argue this all day long like a couple of politicians debating numerous subjects. You've made valid points and so have I.

I do think the brake costs are not much different. Pads and rotors for a Cup won't be that much more than pads and rotors for a BMW M3 since many have upgraded the brakes. Sure if they had stock brakes, then their components would be much less.

I do think there are Cups to be had of the 6 and 7 variety out there in the $50-$85K range that aren't all ragged out and in need of a rebuild. Several have been posted for sale here on RL in the last few months. Sure there are BMWs out there for sale for pennies on the dollar. We all know that even when you buy someone else's race car, you can still spend a good amount getting it to your liking.

James-GMG

Guys, if anyone is interested in seeing this car, it's at my shop in SoCal. And in fact, this is my brother's car.....he is meticulous beyond belief and he built this car with safety as a priority, and then performance. I tested this car at Thermal and it was a blast to drive. I think it's a front runner in GTS-3 for sure and there is NO WAY a Cup car has the same running/owning costs as a BMW like this.........not even close.
If you are looking for a $45K - $50K freshly built GTS-3 front runner, this is your car.
And is someone is interested, I can do a roll out of the car at Thermal for the owner......my brother has helped me over the years (way back years - in the 90's) and I would like to return the favor to him and help him sell it.

Happy to take any emails at James@gmgracing.com

Cheers,

J richard

Not to stomp on anyone's car but just as a point of reference a pcar buddy of mine just picked up a M3 GTS3 car to run with the local crew. Several others have built top quality builds and one even built a brand new car top to bottom just to sell it because he found a better car for less...sold the new build and is now racing the second one. All of them are less than $25k. Parts are cheaper than 944 spec or spec box at this point and they are everywhere to be had. BMW built a crapload more of these than Porsche ever did and the costs bear that out. You can't get a cup refresh for $25k (that was a one time discount offer and that was if they didn't need to replace anything) I'm not getting into the quality or longevity of a cup, been hashed too many times, but the BMW is flat out cheap to run. Consumables are cheaper, you have a choice on tires, a brand new set of wheels is $1100, and most everything you need can be had at Napa.

Just sayin...

fbirch

There definitely seems to be a big base of suppliers of quality aftermarket parts for M cars at prices far below what you find for Porsche. I'm a Porsche guy at heart but I picked up a very nicely built M car ready to run in GTS for a small fraction of the build cost. The deal was too good to pass up.

shannonevo

I have a new Hollinger sequential gear box for a BMW M3 for sale if anyone is interested.

https://rennlist.com/forums/parts-ma...l#post12301056

007DT

Word.

911racer

I am sure that a spec Miata is cheaper and more fun to race than a BMW, and there is more competition and more venues to run it in then just about anything else.

I am still racing a Porsche.

Thanks

Ed