kgorman

E36 m3 ftfw

911racer

Unfortunately I agree that the E36 is probably the best chassis (add in the E46 motor) and away you go for gts4. But, if your heart will not let you do that, get a 996 or 997 cup car (factory built and ready to race) load in a restricted plate and come out and race. You can still do fantastic in one. Mu personal lap times are all within a second or so of the nasa lap records at the tracks I go to in my gts4 996 cup.

Thanks

Ed

z06801

Try Veskco at Miller he had a nice one for sale,

mikew968

in the great lakes region the 944 was the car to beat in GTS-1. In GTS-2 Porsche 944s2, 968, and Boxster have all been the winning cars. Now in GTS-3 that has pretty well been dominated by BMW. It does seem to vary from region to region and track to track.

magnetic1

this debate always surfaces from time to time. Everyone keeps saying how the BMWs are far superior, etc etc. Having raced the E36 and now E46 M3 for YEARS, I can tell you that there really hasnt been anyone who has built a purpose built GTS P-car. The days of crossover PCA/NASA or BMWCCA/NASA racecars that are competitive are over. The reason why the BMWs are so popular (and I tell this to everyone), is COST.

Dave Thoman just sold his E36 to race a E46 (as he posted earlier) and he thinks the costs to run will only be 20% more, but I can safely say that he should expect it to cost twice as much in parts. And even then, when talking to him about the idea before, he still suggested that would be far cheaper than racing a Porsche. I think I mentioned something to him about costs of E46 M3 and his reply was along the lines of, "Eric, you don't understand. I come from racing Porsches, everything is cheaper".

THAT is the real reason why BMWs are dominating. Pretty sure you can build 2 E46 M3 GTS3 racecars for the cost of a similarly "to the limit" Pcar. You can talk tunes all you want, but has anyone in the Pcar world stepped up to figure out an optimal detune? BMW guys did it years ago and have had that much more time perfecting it.

Mark Francis: Although Josh did turn a sub2, I believe those were all in practice. Not diminishing his success but the best "recorded" time was a 2:00.7

911racer

Eric,

Uhh. Not sure I completely agree with what you say. Dedicated NASA race car. You mean like John, Brant and myself did to GTS1 up this way ? There are plenty of examples of 911 guys who dedicated their cars to NASA to the same level that the BMW guys have.

Porsche's do fine in 1 and 2, but as you get more Hp no matter how much money you drop it seems like BMW's edge us. I mean, I have started with a 996 Cup car and modified it from there. Unfortunately not a lot we can do with the tune and it is still drive by cable instead of wire. Still doing fine, but not up to lap record time yet. Maybe this year, but one way or the other I will probably be moving up to a 997 cup (now that the Brazil 997's are starting to show up) for next year. Better chassis and yes, sequential, but I figure it will still be worth the penalty.

Mike has bought a Cayman just to come out and win. His focus was only NASA and GTS (4 the best I know) Mike did great in 2 with his 968 (does he have to change his user name?) so we will see what he can do with a PDK Cayman.

I think the 911 is great, but setup is so much more important in a 911 vs a BMW 3 series that most of us do not have the time energy or money to put in to the setup side. The BMW and the 944 (or variant) is more of a get in and drive. (my experience with the BMW is limited to E36 and E92 street cars on track)

All done and said, I am still going to race a 911. Always where my heart is.

Thanks

Ed

magnetic1

Sorry Ed, I meant GTS3.

I think the Porsche has a better chassis, better aero, suspension, etc etc. It can be done if someone wants to burn the cash

Jeff Curtis is close w/ his CaymanS and PDK conversion. I think he is working w/ EPIC to do a detune as well.

pu911rsr

Chris Streit raced a 911 in GTS4 and did very well, developed the hell out the car but eventually switched to a Porsche cup. I'd buy a well done 968 GTS2 if anyone knows of one for sale.
Phil

Carrera51

007DT

I'm really hoping for the 20%. :roll eyes:

To your point it seems that the tuning/detuning is a "flash" (pun) with the BMW platform - E46 making it very attractive in flexibility and options. But I think BMW customers are budget conscience so naturally the suppliers are running on lower margins than P-Car suppliers. All in all many of these performance parts are using the same amount of raw materials, etc but BMW is so much less $$... And I don't think that volume is making up the disparity between PCar parts vs BMW.

I looked into having Cayman race car built and although it would run ~ the same competitive wise as the E46 I'm building it was literally 2X the cost.

John H

My old 70's something Kelly-Moss chassis Dawe motored 911 GTS4 car still holds several GTS4 lap records to this day set back in 2007. I was into that car in the low $30's (until the motor catastrophically failed in 2008). And boy, was that car a hoot to drive. Of all the cars I have owned, that is the only one I miss (with the exception of the 65 build 66 911, but missing that car is for an entirely different reason $$$)

AtlJimK

^^^Seconded^^^

As an owner of both platforms, 986 (GTS-2) and an E36 (Would be GTS-2) the cost maybe more than 2X for nearly the same performance. In their current setups the lap times at RA are nearly identical. Bought the 986 for ~20K and have over 25K more invested (maintenance only). E36 cost 16.5K for the build and is on stock springs and no fancy suspension bits.

911racer

Maybe Epic can do for the P-cars what he has done for the BMW's. The BMW's seem to have a real sweet spot right at the GTS3 power to weight ratio, but they can be extremely competitive in 2 and 4.

Denny Pedri has done very well against the cup cars up here in GTS4 in his E36 with an E46 motor. Denny has gone quite a distance in developing his car including an undertray package.

I had heard last year that he was going to be moving to an E46 chassis, so his E36 might also be available.

Thanks

Ed

TheOtherEric

Word on the street here is some E46 / E90 guys in GTS3/GTS4 are running tunes that will automatically de-tune ONLY when on the dyno since the ABS system detects the front-to-rear slippage. Disgraceful for sure, and if true, would certainly put any porsche at a big disadvantage.

Edit: I have NO idea who is suspected of this.

bobt993

Eric, not sure of that claim, but I have run with Eric and Josh and they wheel there BMW's really well. I chased Eric and Josh around the track for a year while they were still developing the cars and it was back and forth with no one pulling away on the straights. They have committed to really getting these cars good in all aspects and at this point without putting serious R&D into an older car it won't approach the same lap times. The only time it gets closer is in the rain where the rear wheel drive puts power down better. Eric has shown me his data and it shows a lot of traction and cornering not straight line speed.