Porsche Vs BMW racecar for NASA GTS classes
03-24-2014, 11:12 AM
#16
Drifting
Just sold my E36 GTS2 / BMWCCA IP car for $27k. It holds the track record at Rd Atlanta GTS2. Very cost effective racing (which is an oxymoron).
I'm currently building an E46 GTS3 race car. I suspect the cost of running this car will be ~20% more (Fuel, larger tires, higher $ cost parts, etc.) Still think they are cheaper than running many PCars. They also seem pretty robust in general.
I feel that these cars are easier to drive fast, as compared to the older 911's.
I'm currently building an E46 GTS3 race car. I suspect the cost of running this car will be ~20% more (Fuel, larger tires, higher $ cost parts, etc.) Still think they are cheaper than running many PCars. They also seem pretty robust in general.
I feel that these cars are easier to drive fast, as compared to the older 911's.
03-24-2014, 11:32 AM
#17
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I just finished building a 2003 E46 with the same thoughts, end of the day I am over $120,000 into the build, I have won 5 of the seven races I have entered. That class has the second largest field of cars, unfortunately, no one runs GTS4 or GTS5 in AZ, and NASA just changed the rules to penalize the newer Porsche cars.
Quite honestly I was shocked it cost so much to build the car, but it seems like the consumables are a lot less than my cup (mainly due to slick addiction).
The car is incredibly forgiving and I wished I would have stayed with the Porsche platform. I will finish out the season and then grab my ankles and take an incredible loss on the sale, so whatever you do, don't build one yourself!!!!! Let someone else take the hit.
Best of luck, hope to see you at Nationals.
Quite honestly I was shocked it cost so much to build the car, but it seems like the consumables are a lot less than my cup (mainly due to slick addiction).
The car is incredibly forgiving and I wished I would have stayed with the Porsche platform. I will finish out the season and then grab my ankles and take an incredible loss on the sale, so whatever you do, don't build one yourself!!!!! Let someone else take the hit.
Best of luck, hope to see you at Nationals.
03-24-2014, 11:53 AM
#18
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My favorite competitor in So Cal NASA's ST2 class is a highly modified powder blue 99' M3. Between the 2 of us we hold all the So Cal track records and are always pretty close on the track. This video from Buttonwillow has him in front of me until a fuel pump issue caused him to bobble...
Fast forward to 5:30 for the race start: https://vimeo.com/home/myvideos/page...e/format:video
Fast forward to 5:30 for the race start: https://vimeo.com/home/myvideos/page...e/format:video
03-24-2014, 12:02 PM
#20
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In NASA Mid Atlantic, the E36 and E46 M3s have been owning the class. Now there is a tune to get the HP/TQ down in an E92 M3 to run in either GTS3 or GTS4. And a certain E92 went below a 2 min lap on VIR Full Course in GTS3 trim.
03-24-2014, 12:03 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
Look at what Tony Collichio did at Miller in the Nationals last year in an E36.
For the right number maybe the car's for sale! He's just moved their shop to a larger location, and will be stepping up over to Spec Miata this year.
For the right number maybe the car's for sale! He's just moved their shop to a larger location, and will be stepping up over to Spec Miata this year.
03-24-2014, 01:04 PM
#22
Race Car
Anyway, this is an E46, rather than an E36, but it is a whole lotta car for the money. http://www.racersedge-inc.com/racers...B6?open&id=2.1
03-25-2014, 12:00 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
968 or e36 in GTS2 have been proven. e46 or detuned e90 ($$$$) for GTS3.
Almost as good handling, and can't beat the insane tune-ability of the BMW engines with super flat HP & TQ curves.
Almost as good handling, and can't beat the insane tune-ability of the BMW engines with super flat HP & TQ curves.
Last edited by pmcrespo; 03-25-2014 at 12:40 PM.
03-25-2014, 12:50 PM
#25
Drifting
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03-25-2014, 03:04 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
[Almost as good handling, and can't beat the insane tune-ability of the BMW engines with super flat HP & TQ curves.[/QUOTE]
I wondered about this. Why can't you do this with a P-car- is Motronic the limiting factor or is more a function of engine design. Must be the latter- don't BMW and Porsche both use Motronic?
I wondered about this. Why can't you do this with a P-car- is Motronic the limiting factor or is more a function of engine design. Must be the latter- don't BMW and Porsche both use Motronic?
03-25-2014, 05:51 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
I own a 993 track car and just sold my E36 NASA GTS3 race car. IMHO p-cars have inherent advantages that make them better racers. Aero efficiency, suspension sophistication, fatter tires, far better gearing, and the engine output is far better optimized to the rules.
The e36 / e46 are far from optimal. The main reason they win is that's what guys are racing, and that's mainly because of budget. But since you need an unlimited budget for GTS, you may as well do it right and start with a more-optimized car like a porsche. Biggest advantages of e36/e46 are cost and easier to drive at the limit.
The e36 / e46 are far from optimal. The main reason they win is that's what guys are racing, and that's mainly because of budget. But since you need an unlimited budget for GTS, you may as well do it right and start with a more-optimized car like a porsche. Biggest advantages of e36/e46 are cost and easier to drive at the limit.
03-28-2014, 01:09 AM
#28
Herr Unmöglich
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The 01 986S in my avatar is getting a full race build in the next year, as soon as my new garage addition is done. My 944 is fun but just isn't fast enough 
Das Box has 88K and it gets a career change at 100K, if not WAY sooner. I'm dying to rip it apart as it is mechanically sound and all the bits that annoy me will get removed.
Locally I will run ICSCC ST (10:1 wt:hp max) and will have an alternate 11:1 tune to hit GTS3 so I can run it at THill as E0. At least that is the plan. The hot car in ST is Mike McAleenan's M3 GTR which would take a ton of money to beat, but I think I can build a pretty good car for maybe 30K and sweat equity. I will start with the original 3.2 but hope to pick up a rebuilt 3.6L at some point. Obviously the BMW's will be the main competition but who wants a sedan... give me a mid engine sports car
Das Box has 88K and it gets a career change at 100K, if not WAY sooner. I'm dying to rip it apart as it is mechanically sound and all the bits that annoy me will get removed.Locally I will run ICSCC ST (10:1 wt:hp max) and will have an alternate 11:1 tune to hit GTS3 so I can run it at THill as E0. At least that is the plan. The hot car in ST is Mike McAleenan's M3 GTR which would take a ton of money to beat, but I think I can build a pretty good car for maybe 30K and sweat equity. I will start with the original 3.2 but hope to pick up a rebuilt 3.6L at some point. Obviously the BMW's will be the main competition but who wants a sedan... give me a mid engine sports car
03-28-2014, 09:03 AM
#29
Race Car
I cannot think of an E36 I've seen that was a track car that did not have a huge rear wing. Do they have something inherent about them that makes the rear really light? You just don't see that with Porsches. Just wondering more than anything.
03-28-2014, 11:11 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
Since GTS is unlimited, everybody sticks a huge wing on their car, and e36 wings are cheap, plentiful, and easy to install. Every porsche would need to do the same, but it's probably much more expensive and fewer options exist.