Texas RS

Jacy,

You get math channel capability with Video VBox Pro, that is where some the comparisons you have seen on my data come from. I like the functionality and ease of use and the analysis software (Circuit Tools 2) is quick and very capable. It is what I would buy again if I were starting all over. Downside is it isn't cheap.

ProCoach

It's in the Video VBOX Setup software, not the hardware, which means that you can get the same, VERY limited math channel capability from the Video VBOX Lite, which at $1750 for the two-camera setup without dash display is just a little more than half the price of the Video VBOX Pro 2-camera system ($3320).

Upside of the Pro version are better cables and connectors, better weather resistance and up to four cameras ($4720). For most folks, two cameras are plenty! <grin> The hardware/software capabilities and video quality are the same for both the Lite and the Pro versions.

I've sold nearly one hundred of the Video VBOX Lites (along with a few Pros) and, since the firmware sorting and software updates, they've been well received. The few units that have had operational trouble, the company has taken good care when I stand behind the client. Now, with the new US arm in Michigan, the service is pretty good and there is little need to interact with the UK manufacturer.

Circuit Tools 2 has been a HUGE step up from the original release and it's perfectly capable and ideally built for making simple comparisons. The "video compare" feature offered by the software is what VVBOX does the best...

For measuring g-forces over distance, there may be better solutions, IMO. ALL of the forces measured by the Racelogic (Video VBOX) products are GPS-derived. There is NO capacity for actual two or three-axis force measurements present in the hardware, as delivered.

For comparisons with other VVBOX generated runs, this doesn't matter, but I would not compare Long G vs Distance measures from AiM, Traqmate, R-K, Race Technology or MoTeC with those from a Racelogic logger.

Texas RS

Peter,

The math channels I am using are in the configuration software that I download to the VBox, something I do in Circuit Tools. It is used in conjunction with the Can bus data coming from the car. The Pro also allows for more channels of Can data

ProCoach

Hmm. Maybe we're talking about the same thing on the math channel setup. Perhaps you could share the math channel(s) you use? Some, like Combined G, are built in.

I can tell you that a majority of VVB (and other systems, below a Cup car at the semi-pro or entry level pro) drivers are not digging this deep (or interested in devoting the time or scaling the learning curve to do this), hence the focus on the raw number (speed/g's/time) and, more importantly, VIDEO comparison between two laps or two drivers.

Most systems like Traqmate, AiM, R-K, Race Technology and MoTeC can do these raw number comparisons, but the Video VBOX, Race Technology and Race-Keeper can each do the side-by-side video comparisons. Using AiM's SmartyManager, you can do side-by side video comparisons in the Movie Viewer feature, at least you could on the old standard definition SmartyCam video files.

The VBOX Lite now comes with four CAN channels included, used to be only one. You can now buy an additional four channels for the Lite, if you wish. The VBOX Pro come with eight channels. Most cars don't have that many CAN channels available to the Racelogic bus, and if they do, the driver input ones are the only ones that are important.

Here are the CAN channels that are on your vehicle (2011 GT3 RS): Lights, Reverse switch, Engine RPM, Throttle Position Sensor, Park Brake, Road Speed, Brake Pedal Position, Steering Direction, Steering Angle, Wheel speed, Clutch, Water Temperature, Oil Pressure, Oil Temperature, Boost Pressure (where applicable), Water Temperature 2, Gear Selection (not standard manual). The channels in bold are the ones useful for deriving additional objective measure from driver input.

The way I tell the VBOX Lite and Pro what to do is through Video VBOX Setup. You write the math channel you want, save it to the scene and upload the scene to the VVB. Then go out and drive the car!

Then, when you download the logged file, there will be a box on the lower left side of Circuit Tools 2 analysis software to select the math channel to be displayed in the strip chart below the video window. No way to make a scatter plot or colored map as in AiM or MoTeC, but you can make comparisons, based on position, between two runs. Here's a picture of how I set them up in a Video VBOX scene.

Texas RS

Peter,

Thanks we may be talking about the same thing. One math channel I have been working on, but will not test until next weekend is the a steering input so I can scale the steering input and put it on my graphics to show steering input both angle and direction. The data for angle and direction are available, but direction is only 0 or 1, so it takes both inputs plus an equation to get the output to show direction and angle on a bar graph.

Your analysis is obviously at a deeper level than mine. I spend most of my time Looking at speed, delta T and video between various runs for a given corner or split.

What scatter plots do you use and what are you looking for with each of them.

ProCoach

Great stuff! Can't wait to see how that works! With that, you will be able to see how quickly and how much steering input there is versus distance/time/position!

My analysis, at the track, is similar to yours. Speed is king. Video is key to analyze, identify areas for improvement (I can hear throttle position on the video, it's crazy!), and convey that information as well as for me and the driver to have a common reference for inputs and location on the track. Delta T is the dead giveaway where you should focus your efforts, next time out!

I use whatever tools the data systems offer to help "find time." I have proven that you do not need a full-time engineer nor do you need a MoTeC ADL3 with RaceGrade GPS to "find time" for everyone I've ever worked with...

The introduction of the Race Technology DL-1 in 2001 as the first GPS-based data logging system was the watershed for "modern" data. Video integration, starting with CDS, Traqmate and the ChaseCam PDR-100, AiM DaVID and then the introduction of "one-box" solutions like the Race-Keeper and Video VBOX, has transformed the process and put it in the hands of club and HPDE drivers. It's GREAT!

The scatter plots I use can be a huge variety, for example colored dots showing engine RPM in each gear according to throttle position, steering input versus lateral g to determine the balance (understeer/oversteer) of the car, my favorite is "steering panic" or an x-y plot comparing the derivative in the rate of change in lateral g versus the steering speed. Hahahaha!

It can get crazy when you're looking to break out of a performance plateau or help someone believe they can transcend their own internal risk/benefit ratios safely and do something they don't think they can do...

I use data a little differently than a lot of guys. To me, it's a great window into what drivers are thinking, every millisecond. If I can address anxieties that the data shows me, fill in the information gaps so there is less "question" on what to do next, drivers go quicker, right away, with less effort and less risk.

These are ALL great tools. It's like peeling an onion!

Texas RS

Peter,

On the steering input, Andy Lally drove my car at TWS several weeks ago and when I look at the steering input, both the chart and the video Andy is sawing the wheel constantly. I compared this versus my own inputs and while our average inputs are about the same he is sawing the wheel +/- 15 degrees about the average. Do you have a view on what he is doing with the additional input? His run is attached below.

ProCoach

Fun ride! Good advice at the end...

On the steering input, I do!

Will PM you. In the middle of Sebring prep right now, but there is a good explanation.

What are the two values in red on the right side of the Combined G graph? One doesn't change and the other doesn't change much...

Texas RS

A one lap comparison at TWS.

Lally - Blue
Me - Red

ProCoach

Make the graph bigger and add Lat G and Delta T, please.

Texas RS

The car is in the shop now having GMG roll cage and six point harnesses installed.....

On the two numbers, one is the oil pressure in bar 5.33, the other is oil temperature and I have been unable to get it to read, still a work in progress.

chart with additional information as requested.




Peter,
I am a novice and this event marked my first year on the track. There are some obvious areas for improvement like I brake way too early for T3 and there is some time available in T6 & T8-10.

Tim

ProCoach

Dude! You're doing GREAT!

There are WAY MORE similarities than differences. Take stock!

TXE36

Tim,

One year??? Yet more proof life's not fair. Hint: some of us spent at least that long in Yellow.

Now that explains your belt situation. When Lally was talking about driving a GT3 with 3 points I had no idea he was talking about your car.

-Mike

ProCoach

Hahaha! He said to Tim as he was getting out of the car; "that's the fastest I've been using three-point belts in YEARS!"

Texas RS

Yes, he was talking about my car. it may be the reason he only did two hot laps:-)

I have had some good instruction by the LSRPCA guys.