BBMGT3

Hi

Anyone have an idea of what laps faster, quali, sprint, enduro?

2012 Cup vs 2009 Cup-S

Rassel

IIRC - Cup S is faster. Better suspension, more rubber to the ground and better aero. But to be on the safe side, check some qual lap times. It's a bit apples and oranges. One is a decently priced sprint racer for a one make series, the other a FIA regulated endurance racer.

Surfbum

I am pretty sure the Cup S has ABS brakes, I also believe that the 2014 Cups will be running the same tire size as the Cup S

BBMGT3

cool thanks, actually the reason why I am asking is because I'm entering an endurance race and have a choice of cars and they're both regulated to 90L fuel tanks. Sounds like the S is the way to go.

coryf

The 09 cup S originally had a 3.6l engine. I believe the 09 spec included ABS. The 12 would be a 3,8l car. I would go with the S if it has a 3,8l. If not I would expect the 12 to be faster. Any idea if they are going to run the same size tires?

BBMGT3

Really don't know.

Stock -S s 3.6L
Stock '12 Cup is 3.8L

Bear in mind the Cup-S was the predecessor to the GT3-R

So it sounds like the faster car, BUT, the 40HP deficit is not to be ignored.

Would love to hear from someone who has driven both.

coryf

The factory grand-am model in 2009 was basically a cup s with stock rear fender flairs. 3.6l, rsr brakes/suspension, and cup S front bodywork. I have driven one of those with a 3.6 and a 3.8. I have also driven the newer second gen 3.8's. I believe a 3.8l newer car is going to be faster assuming the same tires, set-up than the 3.6l S. A 3.8l S would basically be the same speed as the 12 stock cup but with better endurance features like extended brake pad life from the RSR size calipers and if it had ABS would be easier to drive. Either car would be a good choice though.

BBMGT3

thanks, thats good feedback... from what I understand the '12 and the 'S are equivalent in qualifying trim, and if anything the '12 maybe a few tenths faster, but over a 90L stint the S is faster because the better aero/suspension/tires/brakes come into play mid-stint.

Rassel

The engine output is not much different 440 vs 450. Don't know how you feel about ABS, but it's comforting in endurance. Especially if you run into bad weather in the middle of the night. If I rented a bone stock seat I'd take the Cup S. If I'm getting a car I'd take a '12 Cup and change suspension on it and perhaps retrofit a ABS.

I'm not sure the transmission is the same either. Suspension does make a difference. I have not tried a Grand-Am, but if it has RSR suspension it should be superior to a stock Cup. Cory I think you've looked into this a bit?

BBMGT3 - I'm sorry I'm a bit rusty in my memory here. Cory knows quite a bit about these cars, so I'm not going to question his knowledge.

Reg. the Cup R - It's quite a bit faster and shouldn't be compared.

BBMGT3

Didn't realize the power was that close. I thought the Cup-S was 408 to the wheels? Ok nevermind that would imply 430-440 crank...

The R is another world, not comparing.

If I had to buy one of these cars I would definitely get the normal Cup. Cup-S is dead as a GT3 car, but its interesting now because of equivalency regulations in various endurance series, in that the Cup-S runs in the same class as new Cups (not 991s).

Totally agree about ABS. I rarely engage it even when I have it, but when I do, I'm happy that its there!