Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums (https://rennlist.com/forums/)
-   Racing & Drivers Education Forum (https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-and-drivers-education-forum-65/)
-   -   996 GT Race Car Build (https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-and-drivers-education-forum/760825-996-gt-race-car-build.html)

mehoff 06-10-2013 06:58 PM

996 GT Race Car Build
 
1 Attachment(s)
As some of you may know, I have/had been looking to purchase a 996 race car for some time. My initial thought process was that I would prefer to buy someone else’s project instead of building new (a lesson I learned 3x by building my current Carrera based race car). I was unhappy with what I saw in the market, both from a build out and pricing standpoint…..expectations simply didn’t make sense based on what I know of the secondary market for base cars. Another option was simply to jump into a 996 Cup; the novelty of driving a 996 Cup (and the great current pricing) was appealing, but I wanted to avoid high run costs. With that in mind, I began exploring other options and finally connected with a shop that is active in my racing club, POC.


I decided to build new……here’s the project:

Body/Chassis
2002 C4 Tub…aka same tub as the Cup, basically.
Cup Spec Cage (if Porsche Motorsports still delivered 996 Cup tubs, I imagine this is what you would get)
Replica Cup bodywork (front/rear bumper, splitter, rockers, rear deck)
Tub, body work and suspension designed to allow for 255/305 tire combo
Cup wing w/ raised uprights (roofline)
Full Lexan excluding front windshield
Target off-track weight is sub 2,500lbs

Suspension/Brakes
2-way adjustable Motons
GT3 sways
Tarrett bushings, drop links, camber boxes, etc..
Proprietary ABS system based off of stock (best cheater wins!). Calibrated for wheel/tire combo; eliminates “icing” effect
Stock C2 brakes (more than sufficient for sprint races and reduces unsprung weight)

Drivetrain
996 3.6l
Knife-edged
Balanced/blueprinted
Carillo Rods
Decked Heads
Grammed pistons, etc, etc, etc
This is a full spec race motor with an eye toward sustainability
997 stock tranny (slightly better gearing than a 996 variant and an Aisin case. This may be a negative to some, but the newer design and FUTURE availability of parts is extremely important. Having an ’88 G50 box really makes you appreciate the cost of rare replacement parts!)
Having to skip the GT LSD at this point as Matt is furiously trying to meet Grand AM demand…..but it’s on the list


As I alluded to earlier, I had two primary goals for this car; 1) constant podium finisher, and 2) reduced run costs (this will never be as bulletproof as my Carrera, but it won’t be far off). Originally I wanted to make this a GT car that fit into the pointy end of GTB1, but the restrictions on engine life modifications and the current Cayman “advantage” moved me away from it. Running at a 9.0:1 power to weight, this car WILL be faster than 996 Cups, but will run in the GT/GTP groups.

Part of the reason for this post is to share my excitement of my new build, part of it is to let others know about the spec this shop has created. Many others have shared their desire to get into a class leading 996 race car and commiserated on the untenable price points and lack of cars prepped exactly to class specs. This is the solution….the build outlined above is cheaper that every fully prepped 996 race car variant advertised on this site over the past 6 months….and it’s BRAND NEW and built EXACTLY TO SPEC! Those that want a GTB1 car or Spec996 can adjust the scope and save even more.

We already have about a half dozen similar cars in the POC, but I want to see more.

Contact myself or Dan at Speed Gallery if you want any more info; I could talk about his car all day! (NOTE: with the exception of possibly ingratiating myself to my wrench, I get nothing from him if someone here commissions a new build)

The car is still in the process of being built, so if you have any suggestions let me know!

Cory M 06-10-2013 07:18 PM

Nice start, keep us posted on the progress. Dan builds some very fast cars. It seems like there are a couple new creations of his at every POC event I go to.

Steve113 06-10-2013 07:22 PM

looks cool - just curious why you think that will be less to run then a 996 Cup?

GuyIncognito 06-10-2013 07:34 PM


Originally Posted by Steve113 (Post 10528730)
looks cool - just curious why you think that will be less to run then a 996 Cup?

Metzger engine rebuilds, trans rebuilds, more expensive PMNA parts, etc.

to the OP: so will this car be legal for Spec996 or not? IIRC that's what you were originally looking for.

anyway, keep us updated, looks like a good project.

J richard 06-10-2013 07:40 PM

I love a custom build, this should be a really nice setup...I wouldn't add up the numbers tho, unless you're really good at denile...

http://www.racingjunk.com/GT/1817722...Car-2007-.html

mehoff 06-10-2013 08:04 PM


Originally Posted by J richard (Post 10528770)
I love a custom build, this should be a really nice setup...I wouldn't add up the numbers tho, unless you're really good at denile...

http://www.racingjunk.com/GT/1817722...Car-2007-.html

That's the best part of this build.....the spec above has a signed contract for delivery that includes the cost. It is much, much, much, much less than the beautiful 997 in the link

Chris M. 06-10-2013 08:49 PM


Originally Posted by Steve113 (Post 10528730)
looks cool - just curious why you think that will be less to run then a 996 Cup?

Looks like a great car. I would assume no race fuel which would be hundreds of dollars in savings each weekend.

BisimotoSales 06-10-2013 09:20 PM

Fantastic looking project, thank you for sharing. If there is any performance parts we can assist you with, please do not hesitate to ask. :thumbup:

- Julio A.

mglobe 06-10-2013 09:40 PM


Originally Posted by GuyIncognito (Post 10528753)
to the OP: so will this car be legal for Spec996 or not? IIRC that's what you were originally looking for.

As specified here, the car would not be legal. You can't use a C4 tub, and you can not connect the cage to the front shock towers. Lots of other stuff in the build sheet that is not spec that could easily be swapped out for spec, but the initial building platform, and the cage as pictured won't work in SP996

Astroman 06-10-2013 09:41 PM


Originally Posted by mehoff (Post 10528836)
That's the best part of this build.....the spec above has a signed contract for delivery that includes the cost. It is much, much, much, much less than the beautiful 997 in the link

Alllllllright Jack. We're all big boys here. Enough suspense. Just please tell us how much your build is costing.

BTW, I hope my old CCWs are going to a good home :(

FrankyV 06-10-2013 09:50 PM

Really, Jack Mehoff? That's as tasteless as my handle.:thumbup:

Veloce Raptor 06-10-2013 10:53 PM


Originally Posted by SkankyFrank (Post 10529100)
Really, Jack Mehoff? That's as tasteless as my handle.:thumbup:

LOL! At least neither of you is named Craven Morehead...

mehoff 06-11-2013 12:21 AM


Originally Posted by GuyIncognito (Post 10528753)
Metzger engine rebuilds, trans rebuilds, more expensive PMNA parts, etc.

to the OP: so will this car be legal for Spec996 or not? IIRC that's what you were originally looking for.

anyway, keep us updated, looks like a good project.

No, my original thought was that i could grab a spec996 on the cheap and build it out to this spec....i was very wrong. The PCA goal for this car was going to be GTB1, but that doesnt sound like a great place for 996's at this point


Originally Posted by Astroman (Post 10529082)
Alllllllright Jack. We're all big boys here. Enough suspense. Just please tell us how much your build is costing.

BTW, I hope my old CCWs are going to a good home :(

Your old CCW's are staying right where they are! Too much blood, $weat and tear$ went into the carrera to get rid of it. I'll most likely transition it over to an enduro and trainer car (to keep me sharp once i get complacent with the new tech)

Not comfortable disclosing price as i dont want to lock Dan into it. A GTB1 car will be cheaper than my spec, and i imagine a 3.4l variant spec996 will be $6-7k inside of that. Anyone that really wants to get into it is welcome to PM me with their number and i'll walk you through it.

J richard 06-11-2013 12:28 AM

Getting that kind of package for anywhere near that price point is a smoking deal, hell that's not far off a top end spec box build...

Love to see the progress!

jakermc 06-11-2013 08:08 AM

Under $40K for that build is a SMOKING deal!

I'd love love to know more about the ABS system. Cost? What's involved to make the change?

Astroman 06-11-2013 10:30 AM

Well inside $40K plus the cost of the donor car?

mcipseric 06-11-2013 11:43 AM

Very nice build! What GT class will you be running in? I am guessing GT3. I look forward to running with you later this year when I finally get my new transmission installed. Please take it easy on me =)
It will be difficult to keep up with Duane's monster cayman and Eric's boxter monster if he is still in GT3!

Here is an idea for a LSD, go the wavetrac route. zero maintenance, life of the car.... I have one in my 993 and it is fantastic.
http://www.wavetrac.net/
I am thinking of replacing my 996 lsd with a Wavetrace when it is time to rebuild.

Looking forward to seeing your car!

mehoff 06-11-2013 03:36 PM


Originally Posted by Astroman (Post 10530065)
Well inside $40K plus the cost of the donor car?

price includes the donor car.


Originally Posted by mcipseric (Post 10530286)
Very nice build! What GT class will you be running in? I am guessing GT3. I look forward to running with you later this year when I finally get my new transmission installed. Please take it easy on me =)
It will be difficult to keep up with Duane's monster cayman and Eric's boxter monster if he is still in GT3!

Looking forward to seeing your car!

I'm building it as a GT3 car with the hopes of running in GT4 (not sure we're going to make it though). I'm trying to avoid GT3 until I decide to go Motec so I can have ideal engine maps for each track. And honestly, I need seat time...I've never raced a modern car.

Astroman 06-11-2013 04:16 PM


Originally Posted by mehoff (Post 10530906)
price includes the donor car.

That's crazy! Good luck!

FrankyV 06-11-2013 04:46 PM


Originally Posted by Astroman (Post 10531018)
That's crazy! Good luck!

Unbelievable...you couldn't build a decent E car for that price.

mehoff 06-11-2013 06:09 PM

So clean.....

J richard 06-11-2013 06:22 PM

Ok so I can get a fully built body in white build GT3 car, with a rebuilt 996 race motor and 997 box, with full cup body panels, Lexan, a moton/GT3 suspension, ready to race (I'm assuming WHEELS come on the car?) for under $40k?! Did you check the fine print?

I'll sign, show me where...

PelicanParts.com 06-11-2013 06:26 PM

Watching this build and the track debut down the road!

mehoff 06-11-2013 06:45 PM


Originally Posted by J richard (Post 10531289)
Ok so I can get a fully built body in white build GT3 car, with a rebuilt 996 race motor and 997 box, with full cup body panels, Lexan, a moton/GT3 suspension, ready to race (I'm assuming WHEELS come on the car?) for under $40k?! Did you check the fine print?

I'll sign, show me where...

Just to clarify, it's a GT3 class (ours is 9.0:1), not a GT3 base car and the cup panels are replica (as mentioned in the build list).

I got a sweetheart deal on the motor because it was already built, but he is preparing to build these in scale so I would think that's about right.

If you're serious you should call Dan at Speed Gallery, or feel free to call me to get the full download. PM me for our respective cell numbers.

jakermc 06-11-2013 06:51 PM


Originally Posted by mehoff (Post 10531344)
Just to clarify, it's a GT3 class (ours is 9.0:1), not a GT3 base car and the cup panels are replica (as mentioned in the build list).

I got a sweetheart deal on the motor because it was already built, but he is preparing to build these in scale so I would think that's about right.

If you're serious you should call Dan at Speed Gallery, or feel free to call me to get the full download. PM me for our respective cell numbers.

If you want to turn a quick profit I'll buy the car from you for $40K

mcipseric 06-11-2013 07:40 PM

What oil solutions are you using? multiple scavenger pumps? Accusump?

mehoff 06-11-2013 08:32 PM


Originally Posted by jakermc (Post 10531357)
If you want to turn a quick profit I'll buy the car from you for $40K

Talk to Dan. If you are serious it will be well worth your time (though you already seem to have a comparable car).

I'm not his salesman nor have any financial incentive to push people into these cars, I am just incredibly excited about my new build after being incredibly frustrated with the secondary market for 996 race cars.

If you'd like to talk to me first and have me pass a spec by him I'm happy to help (I will accept scotch as a liaison fee!). PM me for the cell numbers.

jakermc 06-11-2013 09:52 PM


Originally Posted by mehoff (Post 10531542)
Talk to Dan. If you are serious it will be well worth your time (though you already seem to have a comparable car).

I'm not his salesman nor have any financial incentive to push people into these cars, I am just incredibly excited about my new build after being incredibly frustrated with the secondary market for 996 race cars.

If you'd like to talk to me first and have me pass a spec by him I'm happy to help (I will accept scotch as a liaison fee!). PM me for the cell numbers.

My car is similar and I know what it cost to build, which is why I'd be willing to buy yours for $40K. I just don't see how it can be done. A quick run down of parts, assuming careful shopping:

Donor: $10K (if you can find a messed up car with a good chassis)
Moton Club Sports $5.4K
CCW Wheels $2.7K
Used 997 tranny: $2.5
Rebuilt race motor: $10K
Lexan: $1K
Wing and uprights: $1K
Other bodywork: $1K
Cage, paint, other suspension bits, custom ABS etc.: ???

So we are up in the neighborhood of $40K before we even begin to talk about the extensive labor involved in a full strip, cage build, re-installation, and set-up.

I also like your build better than mine, the standard 3.6L engine is a much better choice for hp/wt ratio classes compared to the X51 engine. I just hope for your sake that you really have a firm contract and/or substandard parts are not being used, would hate for this to end with a big surprise for you when completed. It just seems to fall into the 'too good to be true' category.

So yes, I am serious, if you can deliver this car as stated for $40K I will immediately buy it from you. I'm just not willing to take the risk up front, but a completed car, count me in!

I definitely want to know more about this ABS system as well, the stock system is the Achilles heal of my build and the Motorsport version is something like $10K. How does this mod work and what does Dan charge for it?

J richard 06-11-2013 10:28 PM

^^^
My math exactly (a little closer to $45) but on e you crack the motor all bets are off.

Don't get me wrong and I'm not detracting, but that is an amazing deal. Perhaps your car is a lost leader to develop a market for this spec of car, but I can't figure out how that works any other way. A spec 996 is $25 on top of a solid donor with a good motor ($15-16?) I'd just like to know how to do it for the price point...

Anyway look forward to the build, that shell is pure sex...keep the pics comming and I'll shut up about the costs...

"The first thing you learn about fight club..."

Frank 993 C4S 06-11-2013 10:42 PM

This is an awesome project and please keep us posted on your progress.

mehoff 06-12-2013 08:20 PM


Originally Posted by jakermc (Post 10531690)
My car is similar and I know what it cost to build, which is why I'd be willing to buy yours for $40K. I just don't see how it can be done. A quick run down of parts, assuming careful shopping:

Donor: $10K (if you can find a messed up car with a good chassis)
Moton Club Sports $5.4K
CCW Wheels $2.7K
Used 997 tranny: $2.5
Rebuilt race motor: $10K
Lexan: $1K
Wing and uprights: $1K
Other bodywork: $1K
Cage, paint, other suspension bits, custom ABS etc.: ???

So we are up in the neighborhood of $40K before we even begin to talk about the extensive labor involved in a full strip, cage build, re-installation, and set-up.

I also like your build better than mine, the standard 3.6L engine is a much better choice for hp/wt ratio classes compared to the X51 engine. I just hope for your sake that you really have a firm contract and/or substandard parts are not being used, would hate for this to end with a big surprise for you when completed. It just seems to fall into the 'too good to be true' category.

So yes, I am serious, if you can deliver this car as stated for $40K I will immediately buy it from you. I'm just not willing to take the risk up front, but a completed car, count me in!

I definitely want to know more about this ABS system as well, the stock system is the Achilles heal of my build and the Motorsport version is something like $10K. How does this mod work and what does Dan charge for it?

I ran the numbers before getting into this as well and they do work. The biggest issues with your numbers are the donors are less (specifically targeting salvage cars with blown motors, which craters value), there is about $3-4k of wholesale parts that get harvested from the car, the tranny cost is the difference between a 997 and a 996, the Motons are fresh rebuilds (from a car I know from a shop I know) and the wheels are one piece OZ's at $1,600 a set.

That is neither here nor there though; you can either believe the cost or not. Those that take delivery of a car will believe the numbers. For now, I'll just transition this to a true build thread, which is what I think everybody wants anyway! Updates with more pictures soon.

analogmike 06-12-2013 10:52 PM


Originally Posted by mehoff (Post 10528680)
Target off-track weight is sub 2,500lbs

Running at a 9.0:1 power to weight, this car WILL be faster than 996 Cups, but will run in the GT/GTP groups.

That's a great build but a 996 cup power/weight is much better, about 7:0. And the 996 motorsport dif will make a big difference too in acceleration and stability.

jrgordonsenior 06-13-2013 07:54 PM


Originally Posted by analogmike (Post 10534426)
That's a great build but a 996 cup power/weight is much better, about 7:0. And the 996 motorsport dif will make a big difference too in acceleration and stability.

Mike I think it's more like 8.0 (2850 /355whp) but your point is well taken. This car should put out around 325whp so at 2700/325 he could run as low as 8:3 to 1 which is early 6-cup territory. Jack's probably around 160 so might even be able to run a little lower. Unfortunately for him, the class he's choosing to run in has a minimum multiplier of 9....

As for diffs, I wouldn't consider running any highly modified 996/997 without a good one. Hitting the brakes hard from 150 will cure you of the notion you don't need one in a hurry...

mglobe 06-13-2013 09:31 PM


Originally Posted by jrgordonsenior (Post 10536705)
As for diffs, I wouldn't consider running any highly modified 996/997 without a good one. Hitting the brakes hard from 150 will cure you of the notion you don't need one in a hurry...

Amen to that!

Misdirection 06-14-2013 12:03 PM


Originally Posted by jrgordonsenior (Post 10536705)
As for diffs, I wouldn't consider running any highly modified 996/997 without a good one. Hitting the brakes hard from 150 will cure you of the notion you don't need one in a hurry...

Although this question will demonstrate my noobness, can you explain what you mean here? What does the diff affect in terms of high speed braking?

mcipseric 06-14-2013 12:07 PM


Originally Posted by mcipseric (Post 10531454)
What oil solutions are you using? multiple scavenger pumps? Accusump?


Originally Posted by jrgordonsenior (Post 10536705)
.

What are you guys doing for an oiling solution on your new engines?

mehoff 06-14-2013 01:58 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Sneak peak of the livery:

jrgordonsenior 06-14-2013 08:04 PM


Originally Posted by mehoff (Post 10538468)
Sneak peak of the livery:

Slime green from Ghostbusters?....

jrgordonsenior 06-14-2013 08:12 PM


Originally Posted by mcipseric (Post 10538129)
What are you guys doing for an oiling solution on your new engines?

Eric I've destroyed 2 M96 motors but neither was the result of oil starvation. I think the issue is less relevant in your X51 motor and it's additional scavenge pump. I've data logged my oil pressure around ACS, Laguna, and pretty much every west coast track and never seen a significant pressure drop. Grooved and drilled crank for better circulation, X-51 pans or baffles, and top quality oil heavy oil (15/50). My issues have been miss-shifts from stupid cup cables that I didn't adjust with a new trans (duh), and serious overheating at the Nationals at Miller in 2010. Both avoidable but influenced by the close racing at hand....

jrgordonsenior 06-14-2013 08:19 PM


Originally Posted by TrickyPorpoise (Post 10538116)
Although this question will demonstrate my noobness, can you explain what you mean here? What does the diff affect in terms of high speed braking?

A good LSD with a high lock up ratio of 60 or more (cups are 40 acel, 60 decel), stabilizes the rear when you jump all over the brakes. The diff integrates both axels under decal and the end result is like throwing an anchor out the back. You can brake in a straight line or turn towards your apex and the car will stay firmly planted with the drag applied equally to both rear wheels. Once you've driven the difference you'll wonder why you waited so long to get one. Oh and the lockup under acel is beneficial too allowing you to get to full power much more quickly without spinning tires. I believe most all Grand Am Porsche 996/997's variants use Guards 50/80 diff....

eric523 06-14-2013 08:28 PM

Good, now JR will have someone to play with! ;)

Blitz128 06-14-2013 09:24 PM

I find the pricing difficult to believe... I don't know how you build at this level when you consider donor car, a new or super low mileage motor, Spec suspension , all the other materials that makes a competitive and quality spec build let alone shop include labor costs. Wish you a good luck an success on your build

jrgordonsenior 06-15-2013 12:59 AM


Originally Posted by Blitz128 (Post 10539552)
I find the pricing difficult to believe...

Guess it's time I chimed in here on Speed Gallery's builds. Dan has built maybe 40 variants of these cars including cups over the past 5 years I've known him. He works with a crew of 3 other qualified mechanics and they've all been there for awhile. Dan is a very smart businessman and buys his donor's well priced. He has his own motor builder and his brother is an electrical genius and great with trannies and diffs. He's built his own body molds keeping those cost reasonable and he shares space with a high end body-paint shop. Most importantly Dan's not greedy. He keeps his customer base happy which is demonstrated by his repeat customers. So yes he can build a competitive 996 race car with fresh motor/trans for under $40k. Certain item he excludes such as a race seat and data, but his cars are well setup and ready to race. Dan built my car 5 years ago next month. It was originally one of the first 996 Specs then lightened and converted to run in the GT classes and yes, I'm still a customer. He's just completing a stunning 3.8 Cayman PDK that will be for sale shortly.....

coinboy 06-18-2013 05:39 PM

:corn: :biggulp: watching this one

mehoff 07-08-2013 05:39 PM

Went and inspected the progress last week; really impressed with the build thus far.

Few quick pic updates:

Rob in VA 07-12-2013 05:21 AM

I love the color!

Frank 993 C4S 07-12-2013 08:53 AM

Very nice!

mikew968 07-12-2013 10:32 PM

coming along very nicely!!!!

mike1111 07-12-2013 11:50 PM

:corn:

Ritter v4.0 07-14-2013 08:02 PM

You don't see many cars in apsparagus green.
(I'm only jealous- looks awesome).

mehoff 07-15-2013 03:45 PM

Fenders mounted, front bumper and doors hung for fitment:

Attachment 744257

Loving the color....awesomely-horrendous! In reality it is a much brighter lime green; camera can't seem to capture it.



Master cylinder installed along with custom ABS (or is that a stock ABS unit scruts?)

Attachment 744265

HiWind 07-15-2013 04:44 PM

holy guacamole! looks tasty!

J richard 07-15-2013 08:19 PM

Is that an "in house" cup nose? Awesome build, still amazed by the value you are getting!

mehoff 07-15-2013 09:08 PM


Originally Posted by J richard (Post 10612998)
Is that an "in house" cup nose? Awesome build, still amazed by the value you are getting!

You bet, all the non-stock body panels are cup replicas. This way when I inevitably tear a body panel off, the new piece can be replaced quickly and will be a direct bolt-on. Plus the significant savings between Motorsports and replica parts is nice!

I don't need a Porsche parts number stamped on my body panels.

J richard 07-16-2013 01:09 AM

I'm no prima Donna when it comes to bumper covers....

Any info on that piece? The boxster needs some aero...

Ritter v4.0 07-16-2013 11:25 AM

I use the same bumper ('99)- fit and finish is very good. Also the hood, doors, roof and rockers.

GuyIncognito 07-16-2013 11:30 AM


Originally Posted by Ritter v3.4 (Post 10614273)
I use the same bumper ('99)- fit and finish is very good. Also the hood, doors, roof and rockers.

Getty Design or....?

Ritter v4.0 07-16-2013 11:37 AM

Speed Gallery/Dan. Same as the avocado version above.

GuyIncognito 07-16-2013 11:37 AM


Originally Posted by Ritter v3.4 (Post 10614304)
Speed Gallery/Dan. Same as the avocado version above.

they're making them entirely in-house?

mehoff 07-16-2013 01:57 PM


Originally Posted by J richard (Post 10613685)
I'm no prima Donna when it comes to bumper covers....

Any info on that piece? The boxster needs some aero...

Shoot Dan an email at danaspesi@gmail.com.

He's more of a constructor than parts supplier, but it never hurts to ask. Be sure to tell him it's for a boxster; he's hung a ton of these of boxsters. High quality parts that are, more importantly, race car proven.

jrgordonsenior 07-17-2013 06:50 PM


Originally Posted by GuyIncognito (Post 10614306)
they're making them entirely in-house?

Yep my car is the original test car for the molds....

mehoff 07-18-2013 08:20 PM

1 Attachment(s)
So fresh and so clean clean.......

Attachment 745045

This pic above actually captures the true color of the car.

.....and we have the first owner-induced budget bust! Absolute, complete and utter overkill, but I was wavering back and forth and got a good deal on these (996 GT3 6 piston in the front, 997 GT3 4 piston in the rear). 997 rears have front knuckles with special adapters.

I'm going to be running this car very heavy for a couple years and couldn't shake brake fade paranoia. Plus, there's no guarantee we'll be able to restrict the engine enough for me to make the POC GT4 class, and if I'm stuck in GT3 running 9.01:1, I want the brakes for our high speed tracks

Attachment 745046

Cloudspin 07-18-2013 08:35 PM

Looks great!

lordpantsington 07-19-2013 05:38 AM

Thanks for sharing! Not to be ungrateful, but I miss the big photos you were posting earlier.

mehoff 07-23-2013 03:15 PM

Getting close. Hoping to have it on it's feet this week and electrical started next week.....goal is our POC Autoclub event Aug 23-24, but will need to be shaken down prior to. It will be close.

Photos of the rear decklid (cup replica) below; I'm really happy with the way this piece turned out:

Attachment 746370

Attachment 746371

Front Lexan In. Will not be running a dash in the car (weight savings). All instruments will be handled through an IQ3 fed by a custom wiring harness.

Attachment 746372

mcipseric 07-23-2013 03:50 PM

thought about adding a knee bar to your cage?

mehoff 07-23-2013 05:02 PM


Originally Posted by mcipseric (Post 10631513)
thought about adding a knee bar to your cage?

Not as of now. This is a 997.1 cup cage (spec), and if it's good enough for Motorsports it's good enough for me. I'm not an engineer so I know very little about this kind of thing, but the fact that the cage is tied into the front suspension pick-ups may negate the need??

If those smarter than me have a strong opinion I'd love to hear it (yes I understand the underlying construction of the 997 and 996 tubs are different).

jamm 07-23-2013 07:09 PM

2 Attachment(s)
looking awesome jack....the crew at HRG are everso slightly ahead on my GT4 build and looks like we'll be at ACS with you. Love to compare notes, and times :), trackside. You definitely need to move up to GT3 :p

here's pics of some final progress on mine....will post a separate, more complete thread later.

OBehave 08-06-2013 01:53 PM

Wondering how this is going?

ProCoach 08-06-2013 02:16 PM

Beautiful build!

If you're not wedded to the IQ3, the new AiM Sportline GT wheel with an EVO4 logger would be a great alternative. See: http://www.aim-sportline.com/eng/pro...heel/index.htm

Just sold my first two, one to a nice P-car shop in CT! :D

mehoff 08-06-2013 06:21 PM


Originally Posted by OBehave (Post 10665845)
Wondering how this is going?

Nothing new to report; car is sitting on all four corners and is at the electronics shop. Hope to get it back by Monday, set the suspension (aside from corner balancing) and get it off to the dyno.

The goal is to move a projected 310bhp engine down to around 250bhp. This can hopefully be completed with different plenums/throttle restriction in an effort to maximize torque. This monster 3.6L may end up with the plenum off of a little sally 2.7L boxster!

n2deep 08-06-2013 07:49 PM

Really nice build. Looking forward to seeing it in person. I'm also planning to join the fun in GT4 but I won't be ready for Fontana ... maybe Miller. I'm building a light weight Cayman.

Mark
BSR #299

Ritter v4.0 08-07-2013 12:19 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I would advise against the IQ3 as I and others much more skilled tried to get it to work to its potential and failed. If you still have a choice, of the two, AIM is a much more intuitive and drover friendly system

The bigger brakes will take some getting used to and the risk especially if you de-tune to 250hp, will be of overslowing the car. At 250 HP its a semi-momentum car. My car was about 295 (now after much wear 270) and the stock brakes were locking up as we kept dropping weight.
Eventually we put 7Cup brakes that fell off a truck so to speak and my times went up not down as I was overbraking and couldn't modulate the pedal like before (no booster to help). We revalued to give more pedal travel and that definitely helped- no more standing on brick- and my times came back down. As I learned, and you may as well, bigger better brakes made for stopping a GT3 or Cup with +100-150hp more takes some driver adjustment.

GuyIncognito 08-07-2013 09:34 AM


Originally Posted by Ritter v3.4 (Post 10667191)
Eventually we put 7Cup brakes that fell off a truck so to speak

I didn't realize you used Gambino Brothers Racing :)

Ritter v4.0 08-07-2013 11:40 AM

Almost. They were a set of spares from a GTC team that my mechanic secured (he worked for Level 5 last year). The price including near new rotors, calipers, a proportioning valve and hardware and pricelwise was a no brainer- and I am uniquely qualified for that type of deal. Put it this way- when he told me the cost I assumed it was per corner and was still considering it. But was for all 4. Helps to offset all the money I've overspent on the car over the years.

trackjunky 08-07-2013 05:19 PM

Following this post for a while. $40k-ish is cheap, cheap, cheap.

For example, I totaled just the parts for my 996 Spec project and parts alone (w/o cage) is around the $20k mark. This is without labor, paint or any of the other small items that you forget to track. Add in a decent car for $20-22k and you are already at $40k + before you pay someone to do all the installation work.

And yes, I really do regret saving receipts and learning to use a calculator. Globe told me never to do either. :banghead:

GuyIncognito 08-07-2013 05:40 PM


Originally Posted by trackjunky (Post 10668900)

And yes, I really do regret saving receipts and learning to use a calculator. Globe told me never to do either. :banghead:

shoulda listened.

so should I.

:banghead:

dgmark 08-07-2013 05:50 PM

I to am having a hard time with the math on this one. I am building a 996 myself and will be north of 40,000 with the engine rebuild.This is without any labor or the donor car figured in. I figure I will be all in for abut 50K.
Taking a car to the tub and completely reassemble it with paint has got to be in the 100-125 hour range, at a cheap rate of $80 per hour thats another 10K then add another $1,000 in paint material. Then add another 5K for the engine rebuild labor.

PelicanParts.com 08-07-2013 07:20 PM

Think you'll make Fontana 23/24th? Great stuff so far!
Mark/Pelican Parts

Ritter v4.0 08-07-2013 09:05 PM

$40k is a good price for sure. But you have to start with a good donor.

The donor cost can eat into the budget in a big way. There is no point in buying a nice 996 for $20-25k only to gut it etc.

A salvage title car can save you $5-10k easy then you can even sell parts back to the dismantler if you are lucky or on the market if you have the time or inclination. I think mine was like $13k and came with PMNA 20k motor in it. I even sold some parts back so my net was more like $11k.
They are out there.

Blitz128 08-09-2013 10:21 AM

I agree with Track Junky and Guy.... I did not listen to Globe either and saved every receipt and made the mistake of adding them up... oh my I had cardiac arrest.... the surgery cost less than my SP996 build :>) I had a shop do all the labor on mine and with a reasonable cheap donor car and every thing needed to build to great SP996 there is no way I could do it for $40k... I was well north of that !! By the way my car is for sale too :>)

mikew968 08-21-2013 11:41 PM

Any update?

mehoff 10-30-2013 08:20 PM

....and we finally have a finished race car! (well, almost. The wiring needs to be bound throughout the car) The electrical turned out to be a nightmare, hence the significant delay.

Really nothing new to report other than weight: 2,348lbs dry, which is about 250lbs inside what we had anticipated.

Car will hit dyno next week and testing at WSIR the week thereafter. Car was delivered slightly better than spec and at agreed upon price.

mehoff 10-30-2013 08:55 PM

1 Attachment(s)
couple more....

mikew968 10-30-2013 10:05 PM

looks great!

Matt Romanowski 10-30-2013 10:25 PM

Looks great! Nice and clean.

Cloudspin 10-30-2013 10:35 PM

Great build!

mobonic 10-30-2013 10:42 PM

Dan does build some light cars... no frills but they sure are light and fast.. what you want in a race car!

Congrats and nice job Dan.

genikz 10-30-2013 10:50 PM

I'm surprised you can get a 996 that light. Well done; the car looks fantastic.

jrgordonsenior 10-30-2013 11:46 PM

Jack keep your old man away from that thing or you'll never see it again. It looks stunning in person, you should wrap that front end...

As for weights, I'm 2400 w/fluids and 1/8 tank fuel and the dark green car Essa built is 50 lbs.lighter than mine!

I'd run it once to break in the motor before putting it on a dyno. The idea of repeated FT runs hitting the rev limiter just can't be good for a brand new motor on a wheel dyno. I took mine out last weekend at ACS and now will dyno shortly.....

mehoff 10-31-2013 12:32 AM


Originally Posted by jrgordonsenior (Post 10870131)
Jack keep your old man away from that thing or you'll never see it again. It looks stunning in person, you should wrap that front end...

As for weights, I'm 2400 w/fluids and 1/8 tank fuel and the dark green car Essa built is 50 lbs.lighter than mine!

I'd run it once to break in the motor before putting it on a dyno. The idea of repeated FT runs hitting the rev limiter just can't be good for a brand new motor on a wheel dyno. I took mine out last weekend at ACS and now will dyno shortly.....

Front end is getting wrapped matte black for sure. As for weight, I should be right on top of you, but can pull 30lbs out immediately by replacing the battery. Don't want to touch it before the dyno though (good point on dynoing after breaking it in). You should hit willow with us in two weeks.

How was ACS? I saw they added curbs to the kink; thoughts on them?

jrgordonsenior 10-31-2013 10:50 AM


Originally Posted by mehoff (Post 10870216)
Front end is getting wrapped matte black for sure. As for weight, I should be right on top of you, but can pull 30lbs out immediately by replacing the battery. Don't want to touch it before the dyno though (good point on dynoing after breaking it in). You should hit willow with us in two weeks.

How was ACS? I saw they added curbs to the kink; thoughts on them?

I may run at BW on Nov. 16-17 w/PCA if they'll let me in. Dan's going with some of the team....

I like the curbing as it keeps the right side exit driveable. Previously it always turns into a mud hole/rut that destroys wheels and sends idiots out of control across the track. Now I wish they'd do the same at the exit of T5/6 on the right...

I run a Optima 680 so I'm sure the we'll be within lbs. of each other. It's irrelevant with a multiplier of 9. We'll both need to carry a little weight. I'm guessing 310-315 whp for your 3.6 on a Dynojet....

mcipseric 10-31-2013 09:37 PM

I have a fairly new Odyssey 680 and custom bracket for the 996 for sale if you are interested.

Ritter v4.0 11-01-2013 12:00 PM

Looks great. I see you went for JRGs pod-type dash.
That exhaust looks trez loud.

Redsled 01-27-2014 11:19 PM

Any updates? Did the car get finished?

mehoff 01-29-2014 01:46 AM


Originally Posted by Redsled (Post 11085452)
Any updates? Did the car get finished?

Had it out today for a 75 lap test and tune. Car ran great.....but I need more time behind the wheel.

This was my first time racing a modern car, first time driving a car with aero and the first time I'd run on slicks. Completely different style of driving from my TB momentum car; once I stopped trying to drive it like a Carrera really started to see improvement.

Chased a push all day that we figured out on the last run of the day - WAY too much rear downforce pushing the front end of the car up. Changing over to a smaller wing and hopeful that eliminates it.

Overall a very good day. I hit my target lap time and was only 6/10 away from ideal lap time. I may have hit it during the last session but my data card crapped out.

For some reason I can't post pictures here anymore, so no new shots.

Redsled 01-30-2014 11:36 PM

Thanks for the update. Were you at WSIR, Buttonwillow, ACS? Best of luck with the new ride.

GuyIncognito 01-31-2014 10:33 AM


Originally Posted by mehoff (Post 11088680)
Had it out today for a 75 lap test and tune. Car ran great.....but I need more time behind the wheel.

This was my first time racing a modern car, first time driving a car with aero and the first time I'd run on slicks. Completely different style of driving from my TB momentum car; once I stopped trying to drive it like a Carrera really started to see improvement.

Chased a push all day that we figured out on the last run of the day - WAY too much rear downforce pushing the front end of the car up. Changing over to a smaller wing and hopeful that eliminates it.

Overall a very good day. I hit my target lap time and was only 6/10 away from ideal lap time. I may have hit it during the last session but my data card crapped out.

For some reason I can't post pictures here anymore, so no new shots.

if you're not subscribed, you probably exceeded your upload limit on pics.

congrats on the successful first outing!

mehoff 02-04-2014 05:46 PM


Originally Posted by Redsled (Post 11094003)
Thanks for the update. Were you at WSIR, Buttonwillow, ACS? Best of luck with the new ride.

Out at Willow....it was pretty cool to have the track all to myself the entire day (which is great until you run the car out of gas and sit stranded on the track for 25 min).

As Ritter suggested I'm having a hard time with the braking zones, tending to really over-slow the car. Pushing my braking point past the 2-cone marker in turn 1 proved to be a difficult psychological barrier for me.

Ritter v4.0 02-04-2014 06:30 PM


Originally Posted by mehoff (Post 11105762)
Out at Willow....it was pretty cool to have the track all to myself the entire day (which is great until you run the car out of gas and sit stranded on the track for 25 min).

As Ritter suggested I'm having a hard time with the braking zones, tending to really over-slow the car. Pushing my braking point past the 2-cone marker in turn 1 proved to be a difficult psychological barrier for me.

It takes awhile for your brain, foot and brakes to get on the same page again. I have 7Cup brakes and decided to change the valving to give a little more pedal travel. That helped. Now I can't imagine having anything else.

You'll get there too I'd wager.

jrgordonsenior 02-04-2014 09:16 PM


Originally Posted by Ritter v3.4.6 (Post 11105870)
It takes awhile for your brain, foot and brakes to get on the same page again. I have 7Cup brakes and decided to change the valving to give a little more pedal travel. That helped. Now I can't imagine having anything else.

You'll get there too I'd wager.

Dave do you have ABS with the 7-cup brakes, and what does you car weigh empty? I'm guessing your a hundred lbs. heavier than Jack or I. We're both around 2430 empty....

Ritter v4.0 02-04-2014 10:02 PM


Originally Posted by jrgordonsenior (Post 11106290)
Dave do you have ABS with the 7-cup brakes, and what does you car weigh empty? I'm guessing your a hundred lbs. heavier than Jack or I. We're both around 2430 empty....

No ABS. I didn't have it with the stock brakes for some reason and definitely don't now. Except, now I don't miss it.

Empty I think I'm about 2560. The larger rotors and calipers definitely add mass but those aside I never got close to 2400.
I think it's because it was never stripped to the frame- just "disassembled". The harness has been pared but not the full monty. Some weight there but I doubt it's more than 20 lbs at this point.
Other than that I have no idea where the extra weight is (wish I did).

GT2rainge 03-19-2017 06:58 PM

Great build I've been watching with great interest as I'm planning on doing something similar.
Do you know if the cage is readily available to purchase as I'm looking for something weld in for my project?
Any help is much appreciated .

mehoff 03-20-2017 03:24 PM


Originally Posted by GT2rainge (Post 14044540)
Great build I've been watching with great interest as I'm planning on doing something similar.
Do you know if the cage is readily available to purchase as I'm looking for something weld in for my project?
Any help is much appreciated .

Any Porsche shop worth their salt will have the cup cage in CAD and can get the bars bent in an hour. Call around; shouldn't take long.

Martin S. 03-21-2017 12:32 PM

CAGE IN CAD
 
GMG (Orange County) has several cages in CAD...they can bend the ruling to factory specs, at least that's what Fabryce told me a few years back.

I am curious as to the car in questions POC competition number and POC Race Class. Seems like I am petty often pitted near Dan's rig, love to see the car.

jrgordonsenior 03-22-2017 10:49 AM

Yea Jack, where the hell have you been?....

mehoff 03-22-2017 03:33 PM


Originally Posted by Martin S. (Post 14049176)
GMG (Orange County) has several cages in CAD...they can bend the ruling to factory specs, at least that's what Fabryce told me a few years back.

I am curious as to the car in questions POC competition number and POC Race Class. Seems like I am petty often pitted near Dan's rig, love to see the car.

Lime green 996/997 hybrid...can't miss it. Car #312


Originally Posted by jrgordonsenior (Post 14051721)
Yea Jack, where the hell have you been?....

....running through the bumpers of .2 cup cars or blowing up engines.

New engine on the way

Krokodil 03-23-2017 12:01 PM


Originally Posted by mehoff (Post 14052568)
Lime green 996/997 hybrid...can't miss it. Car #312
....running through the bumpers of .2 cup cars or blowing up engines.

New engine on the way

it will be good to have to back.

Cheers,

mehoff 04-18-2017 08:31 PM

back together and back on track. Car and engine seem good, driver needs some work.

I hate these M96 motors.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...00ac8e1e99.jpg

mehoff 10-09-2019 04:09 PM

The motor from the last post blew up, which means motor #3 is now in the car.......and for sale. Looking at going a different direction.

Specs:
3 hour fresh build by Tiger Motorsports in Los Angeles (doesn't even have dyno time yet)
STOCK build; no more race tolerances in this engine!
Motorsports AOS
LN Engineering Deep Sump and Baffle Kit
Will come with harness and ECU

$18.5k

Also have a 997 transmission with a Guards LSD available for $5.5k. Will include LW AASCO flywheel. Tranny goes only after motor sold.

DDun911 10-09-2019 06:36 PM

Anyone looking to start one of there own, I have a 01 996 with everything but a motor.
ChromeMolly cage
Moton's
New FIA seat
Guards Limited slip
All GT-3 suspension bits
Car was down to 2800 with driver, no plastic panels.

$ 20K Car is NJ


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 01:28 PM.


© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands