mrbill_fl

this can still be a learning lesson..... in more than a few ways!

stuttgart46

Sean F

can we please go back to the original story, it's much more interesting

ZSA Motorsport

1000%. if you haven't had a wreck, you have no idea how the simplest of mistakes can turn into massive losses, headaches, loss of car, no car for racing for 2,3 months, etc. and then you're in a mental , verbal or other battle with someone you liked enough to lend them your car, because you thought they'd just step up and pay, and they felt they did not have to do so.

ive coached with 1/2 dozen top coaches over the last several years. they are all excellent fellows, fantastic drivers. ive also had more than one shop build me a car, prep a stock pca class car like an F or G class boxster, including shop's like rick's and spencers (both excellent shops, fantastic race-winning and record holding cars)....but now that I think about it, not sure anyone really has ever had that convo about "sure, happy to help setup the car, but if it wrecks, I cant be responsible". im not blaming anyone and again, there seems to be a great lesson here.

maybe shops should be more direct about this, clear about what happens when you take possession of the car and lap 2 the brakes fail, or you put a pro in or the shop owner in, or a buddy in, and something fails or a mistake is made.

typical non-racers are very used to warranty and a shop fixing stuff. rick knows this better than anyone. I had lots of gtreat results and success with rick, but I remember in my first year with cars, if something busted, I remember thinking, 'oh, its a new build, why doesn't the shop just replace it". and only after having gone through it a bunch of times, and having built our own cars, its not very clear.

I guess my point is, it aint so clear to even experienced guys and for sure guys who are brand new. we as drivers, and rick as a shop, are probably really best served to have that conversation with the car owner before getting in so everyone knows the rules of the ride. then the owner can decide.

im actually surprised that shops don't require a wiaver of liability and more legal paperwork disclaiming any warranties or liability, knowledge of risks of racing, before plopping someone in a race car.

again, not suggesting anything about any shop, but I know a few in the area, and I don't know anyone that does that before delivering a new prepped race car, or before supporting a guy at a pca race.

and the crazy thing is that this isa bout the most dangerous sport out there. if youw ant to go bungy jumping, you'd have to sign away everything all liability. you even show up at sebring to see an event, you have to sign the wiaver before you take one step in the door.

anyway, all this just food for thought and conversation. if I ever built a car for someone again, they'd be signing off big time before I gave them the keys.

Hoosier_Daddy

Yea - the one started by the dude with 5 posts...

IcemanG17

I believe in the "you broke it, you bought it school"

When I ran my lemons car everyone on the team understood the risks and we all agreed on a "total" accident price to the team owner if they totalled the car....granted it was a low figure, since its lemons....but something I discussed with all of my drivers

I do the same thing when I drive for other teams in lemons......if I am really unlucky and destroy your car....how much will it cost me to replace it......some teams our very generous and say nothing....others give me a number....if it is reasonable, I drive for them.....if I can't afford it I don't

"If you can't afford to leave it on the track, don't drive it on the track!" Best advice ever

FrankyV

Being a superstitious lot, I think racers avoid the liability discussion so they don't jinx themselves. I mean we all love an enduro co-drive but who wants to bring up worst case scenarios and spoil the fun? At Sebring my good buddy wrecked his car in practice so I offered up an enduro co-drive. Since he already wrecked, I didn't hesitate to tell him it was his for $25k if he destroyed it he countered with "or if it's fixable, I will get it fixed". While he said he would only drive 9/10s, I know him better than that. Watching his video after, he admitted that he didn't hold back pointed out that that he almost lost it in turn 17 where he destroyed his car. DOH

multi21

Economies of scale. If someone wrecks my 944 Spec race car I have to pay them

GT3 Techno

Wow... how can you tangle with no contact

Whatever the shop owner did, if there was no contact the Cayman driver should not expect anything for his own mistake. Aggressive pass by the shop owner may be considered bad customers relations but nothing else.

winders

We don't have enough solid factual information, one way or the other, to make any such statement. The situation is clear as mud.

Scott

MattUF

I'd agree with "you ask, you pay; you're asked, they pay" philosophy that was stated earlier. Luckily it now looks like the situation has become more clear, but it might be a good thing this thread was started if for nothing else, than to make people think.

txhokie4life

Cry than puke -- maybe not in that order -- probably more than once....

It even hurts me when my ChumpCar takes a knock or a mechanical...

Mike

TRAKCAR

Racing is different.
Contracts are written up.

In DE if I drive someone else's car, I hand them a blank check.
Only exception would be that the car has a mechanical failure that has nothing to do with drivers' input.

If I ball it up for whatever reason I pay. If I break it I pay.
If I can't do either, I won't drive it.

KOAN

I'll never forget the last time I drove someone's car at any speed. It was at Road America, and a good friend asked if I wanted to drive his Carrera GT. He was too busy instructing to go with me. I grabbed a friend, and we went for a few laps. I was going 5/10. The car is not intuitive to drive, but is absolutely thrilling. Then we pulled onto the front straight next to a Viper...I couldn't help myself...By the time he was a speck in my rear view mirror, I was up to 175 mph. The right hander was coming up pretty fast, and the brakes were NOT slowing me down like I had hoped. I made the turn at about 110 ( at least that is what I remember...), and the car turned like it was a Sunday drive.

I learned my lesson. I don't drive other people's cars unless I can buy them.

And I thank my friend every time I see him for the most exciting drive of my life.

Carrera51

Did a co-drive at Sebring this year. When the seat was offered, we came to an agreement as far as liability and I put my suit on. If a student offers me the keys to his car, most of the time I decline. Just don't want the potential headache. When I do drive, they are in the car and I drive it at their level to give them a visual of what I have been explaining from the right seat. No thrill rides.