gums

When I share my car for enduros the deal is perfectly clear; if you are behind the wheel and there is an incident, you fix it, no matter who's at fault. I even added an addendum to that stating that even if you are ejected and not technically "behind the wheel", you are still responsible for the damage!

Let me guess on this one: Monticello? If so, I can add up the rest.

Dr.Bill

Too many unknowns.

Who was at fault? I would say they should fix what they broke.

What are the rules of the organization? One local group has a rule - if you cause body contact, you are responsible for the repairs (or working out something the owner agrees with). Most tracks also hold the driver responsible for any damage to the track.

The right thing for the shop to do would be to return both cars to the condition they were in. Otherwise, he might have trouble finding future customers once word gets out. Sure, may not be legally required, but it's the right thing to do. Because in this day and age, word will get out.

ZSA Motorsport

Sounds like a bad set of circumstances. I think shop owners are held to a different standard than a pro driver. If i put Eric Curran in my car and he wrecks, 100% i'm responsible, my deal, my problem, my loss.

If i give eric curran my second car, and he wipes me out trying to pass me, causing me a huge impact and damage to the the brand new race car that was just delivered to me by my race prep shop, then its still my deal, my cars, my instructor, my loss. I'm probably going to have words or more with the instructor who wiped me out in my own car, but its ultimately my own deal.

Yet, i would think if its a race shop, there delivering your car they just built, which if its as described a 3.8L cayman, it must be a $120 to 150k race build...and if i out of my appreciation for the shop let the shop owner take out my second car, and he wrecks me, well thats a different story. i think the shop owner ought to repair both cars at minimum at his absolute cost, maybe just cost for hardware but possibly cost of labor. or better, at no cost.

it really begs the question as to why the shop owner is out running around in the customers' car, having fun in a customers' car when he should be there supporting the customer and engineering the newly delivered car. moreover, as a business owner, you'd think you'd realize that zero good comes from having fun and burning up the tires of a customer car.

its a bad situation the shop owner put themselves into. they rolled the dice, they fouled up. they not only crashed, but they crashed out the customer for which they just delivered a brand new car. unfortunately, with great respect to shop owners, they dont necessarily have the deep pockets that the car owners might, so going out of pocket 50,60k to fix two cars might not be do-able.

seems like everyone here learned stuff the hard way. noone wins at all.

StoogeMoe

Wow, and I thought I had bad luck...

Veloce Raptor

So...I drive a LOT of other peoples' cars.

My philosophy is that, if I am getting paid to get the most out of the car and/or test it and/or help set it up and/or co-drive with the owner in an enduro, the financial burden is on the owner UNLESS I make an obvious error like a money shift, which will clearly show up on DME codes. But all other maladies are on the owner, if they are paying me to do what I do.

If it is in a DE where I am a volunteer, and I drive someone's car in a DE session, I am responsible unless the incident was caused by a mechanical fault or failure of the car, or a driving error of another driver.

RickBetterley

Wow - how unlucky to have both of your (not the OP) cars tangle in a single incident.
Since the facts are not the usual DE incident but involve a business crashing a customer's car, I would say the shop should take responsibility, based on just good business practices. I would expect that this would be over and above the liability waivers they hopefully signed.
Change the facts and I might feel differently.

J richard

Hmmm... Maybe should ask Christian Horner what to do....

All I can say is... "can I drove your car?"

TXE36

I don't like driving other people's cars on the street let alone the race track! If you can't afford to replace it, don't drive it.

-Mike

Streak

Good Hands car. I paid for it. Had all the parts ordered before we left Florida. Very long quite ride home. Mostly because he had an open trailer and could see his smashed up car every time he checked his mirrors for 16 gdamn hours. I also bought lunch and dinner on the way home so we're even.

When we co-drove a 4 hour enduro at Summit Point in my car he reminded me of this as he was buckling in

hf1

If one wanted to split hairs, this complex situation could be simplified as follows: If the shop owner was driving his own car, would he be responsible for the Cayman crashing or not? How would the blame for the crash be apportioned regardless of who owned which car?

But splitting hairs may not be the optimal business decision for the shop owner. If I was him I would make the customer whole on both cars. If I can't afford to do so, I would do my best effort to come close, then consider this a costly tuition to never risk more than I can afford to cover/lose -- be it my own property or someone else's.

ZSA Motorsport

Gums, I havent been up there all year, but if MMC, then there are only two shops up there that build hot rod 3.8L caymans, deman motorsport and speedsport. both owners are excellent drivers, tops.

Fwiw, its not uncommon for a shop owner to take around the project car. infact, you sort of must do so. we built two 3.4L WC caymans for a pair of MMC members, and i had to take around each just to ensure they were safe, sound, nothing diabolical other than setup. one i took around. the other they took to Road Atlanta and with Tiv's setup, set track class records.

but when i take it around, its at 8/10ths, maybe no more. that proves out ABS, shifting, engine, etc. above that, i'm playing a no-win game with someone else's money. here, if the shop owner was in the customers' other vehicle, maybe he was helping him set it up. maybe it wasnt setup right and suffered a failure as he went to pass, or maybe he just made a mistake like we all have done.

in my estimation, you throw the keys to any drivers, unless its clarified and made a condition before hand, if you as the owner suffer damage while at the hands of someone else, you as the owner pay the bill. you run those risks letting anyone get behind your wheel. let alone law suits etc.

like pedro, i think this is a great thread since we should all think a bit more about letting someone behind our wheel.

if i wrecked soeone's car, id pay for it, unless it was discussed before hand.

good hands

I only let people drive my car who come from very wealthy families.

Frank 993 C4S

Even if the Cayman got hit by another random car, the Cayman driver should not expect for that person to pick up the tab for repairs. That's the risk you take on the track. If I allowed for somebody else to drive my car, and that somebody is paid by me to drive my car, that's my risk. If you simply throw somebody the keys "to have fun" you can't hold that somebody accountable for what happens with your car.

If I were the shop owner, I would offer to fix both cars without charging for labor, but that's just me and it should not be expected.

BTW - that's why I NEVER drive anybody else's car.

Van

Anyone from a wealthy family is welcome to drive my chumpcar... but it must be returned in the same condition you borrowed it - less some brake pad material and rubber on the tires.

carshipping

Oh well, why not try to talk with the new owner and tell him that you will going to settle all the damages. I think that's the best thing to do, make an agreement and pay for it.