2014 GT3
03-06-2013, 06:00 AM
#61
Three Wheelin'
I've driven manuals, torque converter automatics, PDKs, F1s, DSGs, CVTs, you name it...and I've had involving driving experiences in them all (well maybe not the CVT Audi 
).
I understand some of the appeal of a manual, but that's not the end all and be all of the driving experience, and there are so many other ways to enjoy the driving experience.
I'm kind of sad for you guys who can't see that.
).I understand some of the appeal of a manual, but that's not the end all and be all of the driving experience, and there are so many other ways to enjoy the driving experience.
I'm kind of sad for you guys who can't see that.
At club days we get a lot of GT3s, from 996 to 997 GT3RS. How many auto cars do we get? Maybe 1 on rare occasions. The reason? There is no joy in driving these. They may be quicker, but they're not more involving.
PDK may be the future, but I think there will always be a demand for manual. The price of a 997 GT3 just went up.
03-06-2013, 08:51 AM
#63
Hopefully they will do it the right way for the RS...
03-06-2013, 12:18 PM
#64
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Exactly. I have nothing against paddle shift. PDK is an automatic tranny not a real paddle shifter. Plus this rear directional wheels thing is a joke on a sport car that is supposed to be their street legal race version. No more GT3 in my future.
Hopefully they will do it the right way for the RS...
Hopefully they will do it the right way for the RS...
I would assume that the "manual" mode on the PDK would be quicker on-track. I have to think most experienced drivers would not want a computer second-guessing their gear choice. The VW DSG (dual clutch) had some overrides, where it would upshift/downshift even in manual mode, and many tuners developed software to eliminate the overrides and improve performance.
I'm a little sad that rev-match downshifting and scary-fast upshifting are becoming obsolete (similar to double-clutch shifting before synchronized gearboxes, or air-cooling on 911s), and I'm not ready to give up my clutch yet, but I'm shopping a TDI DSG for the wife this weekend.
This should come as good news for 997GT3 owners, as I expect this will prop up the value of those cars for a very long time-similar to the 993.
Last edited by Adam@Autometrics; 03-06-2013 at 12:33 PM.
03-06-2013, 01:08 PM
#65
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The electronics are so advanced now that the gearbox will always be in the correct gear regardless of the situation. Now it's just steering, brake, and throttle.
Driving a GT3 is now:
1. Pound brakes to ABS activation point
2. Steer near ideal racing line
3. Floor throttle and let traction/stability control figure it out.
I think most of us would rather have the formula from the 996 GT3 where the most important engine computer was protected by a helmet.
03-06-2013, 01:17 PM
#66
I really dont get the rear steering thing. It is used to reduce "phase Lag" according to Porsche, but phase lag (as best I have learned) is due to more than one input into the electric power stering (EPS) computer. The inputs being driver, load and yaw inputs. Now they are putting in rear steering to over come the problems of EPS?
why not just go back to the good old style (and awsome by most peoples reports) Hydroic PS and call it done. It would eliminate the need for rear steering and keep the GT3 light weight and simple..........ops, maybe I answered it there.
why not just go back to the good old style (and awsome by most peoples reports) Hydroic PS and call it done. It would eliminate the need for rear steering and keep the GT3 light weight and simple..........ops, maybe I answered it there.
03-06-2013, 01:24 PM
#67
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The elephant in the room in the Drive interview is emissions and mileage. He dances around the issue but it is the fundamental reason for a lot of these developments.
Why a direct fuel injected engine? It's not about more power or torque, it's all about emissions and mileage. Well that and economy of scale by using the common engine for the other 911s.
Why electronic steering? Because it increases mileage by drawing less power from the engine.
The PDK box also gets a better EPA mileage number than the manual...
991 Carrera w/ manual: 19 city/27 highway
911 Carrera w/ PDK: 20 city/ 28 highway
Why a direct fuel injected engine? It's not about more power or torque, it's all about emissions and mileage. Well that and economy of scale by using the common engine for the other 911s.
Why electronic steering? Because it increases mileage by drawing less power from the engine.
The PDK box also gets a better EPA mileage number than the manual...
991 Carrera w/ manual: 19 city/27 highway
911 Carrera w/ PDK: 20 city/ 28 highway
03-06-2013, 01:31 PM
#68
The elephant in the room in the Drive interview is emissions and mileage. He dances around the issue but it is the fundamental reason for a lot of these developments.
Why a direct fuel injected engine? It's not about more power or torque, it's all about emissions and mileage. Well that and economy of scale by using the common engine for the other 911s.
Why electronic steering? Because it increases mileage by drawing less power from the engine.
The PDK box also gets a better EPA mileage number than the manual...
991 Carrera w/ manual: 19 city/27 highway
911 Carrera w/ PDK: 20 city/ 28 highway
Why a direct fuel injected engine? It's not about more power or torque, it's all about emissions and mileage. Well that and economy of scale by using the common engine for the other 911s.
Why electronic steering? Because it increases mileage by drawing less power from the engine.
The PDK box also gets a better EPA mileage number than the manual...
991 Carrera w/ manual: 19 city/27 highway
911 Carrera w/ PDK: 20 city/ 28 highway
I was surprised by the statement about not having physical space to build two engine lines as well.
03-06-2013, 01:41 PM
#69
Rennlist Member
03-06-2013, 01:47 PM
#70
Like an Audi Tiptronic automatic transmission with a "sport mode" for paddle shifting... Why would anyone would want an auto mode in a real sports car ? Is there a pro racing series where automatic transmission is allowed ?
03-06-2013, 01:49 PM
#71
PDK is a dual clutch manual with electronic/hydraulic operation.
worlds of difference, mechanically.
and move to LA, or NYC, or Chicago, and you'll want auto mode in a sports car
03-06-2013, 02:06 PM
#72
Nordschleife Master
anybody know why Ferrari & Lambo went to paddle shifters and away from manual?
Because they found that their customer base were older rich guys with not a lot of driving talent that couldn't handle the performance clutch, thus burning them out in 3-5k miles...in turn creating an image that Ferraris and Lambos have faulty components. So, they took the issue (human) out of the equation.
Just sayin...
Because they found that their customer base were older rich guys with not a lot of driving talent that couldn't handle the performance clutch, thus burning them out in 3-5k miles...in turn creating an image that Ferraris and Lambos have faulty components. So, they took the issue (human) out of the equation.
Just sayin...
That is part of the problem, the auto mode is actually faster than the manual mode so you literally don't need to think about the gearbox or clutch at all.
The electronics are so advanced now that the gearbox will always be in the correct gear regardless of the situation. Now it's just steering, brake, and throttle.
Driving a GT3 is now:
1. Pound brakes to ABS activation point
2. Steer near ideal racing line
3. Floor throttle and let traction/stability control figure it out.
I think most of us would rather have the formula from the 996 GT3 where the most important engine computer was protected by a helmet.
The electronics are so advanced now that the gearbox will always be in the correct gear regardless of the situation. Now it's just steering, brake, and throttle.
Driving a GT3 is now:
1. Pound brakes to ABS activation point
2. Steer near ideal racing line
3. Floor throttle and let traction/stability control figure it out.
I think most of us would rather have the formula from the 996 GT3 where the most important engine computer was protected by a helmet.
03-06-2013, 02:10 PM
#73
Three Wheelin'
03-06-2013, 04:49 PM
#74
Porsche should leave the comfy daily driver options for the Turbo.
03-06-2013, 05:22 PM
#75
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