mdrums

This is just not a Toyo RR issue. My R888's are doing this too. This is the 3rd set of fronts that are splitting after a 1-2 day DE event!

R888 is a direction tire with directional tread so I'm not sure about this mounting diagram and if it will work for R888.

Does anyone know who to contact at Toyo about this R888 tread seem splitting issue? I need some help...thanks!

DCP

Tire Rack told me to call Toyo Consumer Relations line 800-442-8696. I tried that last week, but nobody answered. I intend to try again next week.

mdrums

Thanks DCP I got my R888 also from Tire Rack and I will try calling as well. I have 132 DE miles on these R888...basically 1 and a half DE days and they are split all the way across and peeling back at 1 end.

johntorg

Toyo finally took back all 4 of my RRs (3 were split). I have another new set. I will give them one heat cycle at Roebling, on the 19th then off to run the entire weekend at Sebring. I have an old set of Ra1s as my backup.

Sterling Doc

Let us know how it goes, John.

johntorg

Will do.

mdrums

Here are pics of my 2 front Toyo R888 255/35/18 that are splitting. this is 1.5 days at Sebring. 1st day they were new except for the 92 mile drive to the track. I took it easy building up speed the 1st day. 2nd day morning session was easy then 1 after noon session was hot laps and then I noticed the splits.

I have actually 2 more of the same tires that did the same thing but 2 days a Barber and 1 day at Sebring.

I've called Toyo and called Tire Rack who I bought these from and sent photo's and a long explanation about my car, alignment specs and the history of splitting issues I've had with Toyo R888 tires recently. Ball is in their court so I'll see if they (Toyo) stand up and help me out and fix this issues so it doesn't happen again.

f1rocks

Sebring club race this past weekend:

Used the RR's for the first time.

Mounted using the Toyo recommendations. Scrubbed each set one session. Right at the start, scrubbing them in, they were noticeably faster. Ran a full 3 seconds a lap faster on my out laps than I did two years ago at the club race there for the entire weekend. Granted I at least knew left from right this year!!

Let them set till Saturday morning. Ran 4 heat cycles on them Saturday and inspected between each run zero issues with splitting. Rotated on Sunday morning and ran the 90 minute Enduro. Inspected after with no visible issues at all.

Started around 27 and maintained 38-40. They don't like getting hot. I pushed a few laps before my mandatory pit stop and they got greasy fast. I'm not a great drover so I'm sure there are a few more seconds in there. I turned my fastest lap of the weekend on full tanks 4 laps into the Enduro at 2:40.365 good enough for a new PCA record but there's definitely a 2:38 in there with some bar tweaks and maybe some pressure changes.

I think the 944 spec guys will like these tires. If they'll last to the cords is still up in the air but after 6 heat cycles they were very very consistent.

johntorg

Brent, glad to hear it. You certainly were fast at Sebring. Congratulations on your victories. What is the date code on your RRs? I have a new set, which we will probably run at Roebling or RA if the 944Spec/SP1 car has its replacement engine installed.

f1rocks

Thanks John sorry you had troubles.

They were all built in 2012, the car is in Jacksonville at Rodenroths so won't see it till Roebling.

They were all bought from tire rack and had the same date code.

Sterling Doc

Brent - thanks for the update - seems encouraging. It is interesting how easy it is to go much faster in the first couple of laps - it's a very friendly tire to come to grips with (sorry). Keep checking in as you get more heat cycles on it. Jealous to hear you ran Sebring!

John - what a collection of projects! How do you find time for the race car? I hope you can find time, and get that motor fixed!


One other data point NASA Arizona had a race this weekend. The only feedback I've gotten so far was from their series director (and one of the fastest guys in 944 Spec) Norm Hamden. He mounted all the tires with the date codes out (oops!), and the two mounted backward developed minor splits, while the two that were correctly mounted did not. Fortunately the splits are minor, and should be OK when remounted properly - they may even seal up. I saw that happen at the 25 hours. There does not appear to be room for error on this, but mounted correctly, there appears to be positive results.

9.5 Degrees

Do not expect to run the RR down to the cords like the RA1s. Discouraging news from a supplier of the RR. He said that the RR behave like the R888s in so far that they have plenty of tread left before they heat cycle out. what he has seen is about 18 HC before they fall off a cliff.

Its great to have stickier tires, but if you run these in economy type series like Spec Miata, Spec E30 and 944 Spec, it doesn't seem like they mesh with the spirit of the series.

The Nitto NT01 on the otherhand can be run down to the cords, are 100 TW and are also owned by Toyo. Seems like a no brainer to switch to these tires.

philstireservice

You know you can run the R888's the opposite way in the dry also. That would fix the possible tread splice issue. The direction means nothing in the dry only in the wet.

Sterling Doc

Tires are the biggest consumable of most any racecar, so we've looked at our options hard. It's not a no -brainer. Let me demonstrate with a painfully long post
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The NT-01 is a fine tire, but Toyo does not market it for road racing. It is aimed for DE, and maybe drift. Toyo does not (and will not) provide contingencies for this tire in Spec racing.

Contingencies are a big deal. Let me run some numbers to demonstrate.

For a 10 car field (low-average for my region), Toyo pays out about $1,300 in total contingencies (2 race weekend). We run 8 weekends a year = $10, 400, plus the season end Regional Championship - another $1,750. That is now $12,150 in Toyo buck for one Region alone. That averages out to 7 free tires per car, per season. 18 heat cycles (per your source) = 3 weekends. This means an average driver uses 2 and 2/3 sets (call it 11 tires) per year. 11-7 = 4 tires the average driver actually pays for each year. So they are out of pocket <$750/year in tires. Heck, that would barely pay for the tires on one corner of a 911 Cup car for one weekend (not that that isn't worth it, if you can aford it!)

Lets say the NT-01 lasts 50% longer (a generous asumption by my experience will all of the tires you've mentioned) You'd use almost two sets, and pay for them out of pocket entirely. Even at about $80 less per set, the same "average driver" will be out about $1,300. For a tire thats 2-3 seconds a lap slower.

This is one example, and the hypothetical "average driver" is just that (faster guys get more, and slower less), but it makes the point that Toyo's contingencies make all the difference here. They were sweetened last year, and for 19 or more cars, Toyo is paying more than $2K per weekend! Even the guy who finishes in 14th place through the weekend makes $100.

Plus Toyo pays CA$H at the National Championships. At Miller, we are likely to have 30+ cars again, and means $10,000 in cash prizes.

Toyo has been very good to us as a class, and makes the more fun/faster RR very worthwhile to run.

9.5 Degrees

I would agree that tire contingencies help, but that's just NASA what about PCA who have to run on these two to be "spc"? We haven't seen those offers with them.

The percentage of people who race at the Nationals is very small as well. Correct me if I'm wrong but were there not only ten 944 spec racers at the last Nationals? How is that going to help the majority of the guys out there that race when they can find time?