Toyo's new RR tire
12-06-2012, 06:32 PM
#106
2nd Gear
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Houston
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Per Phils Toyo will replace my tires that were mounted and quickly developed cracks before these new instructions were issued. I asked for RA1s but they don't want to do that. The Toyo warranty provides for replacement, mounting and balancing if a defect occurs during the first 25% of the life of the tire. It gives Toyo the option of replacing it with the same or a comparable tire.
I am going to give them another try with the new mounting and rotation instructions, but I am only doing DEs. I will be doing thorough inspections after every 20 minute session.
I am going to give them another try with the new mounting and rotation instructions, but I am only doing DEs. I will be doing thorough inspections after every 20 minute session.
12-06-2012, 10:33 PM
#107
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Was talking to a friend who commented that this sort of thing happens with track tires more than many folks would like to believe. Right after the conversation I went to unload my BFG R1's from my trailer, and this is what I found on one of the tires. Not as bad looking as some of these examples, but I bet if I keep running it the tire will start to look pretty similar to the Toyo's being discussed here.
12-07-2012, 12:37 AM
#108
Rennlist Member
I've seen the seam on a number of type R tires, but the alarming issue in several of these examples pictured is the start of delamination of the tread, That's the critical issue...
12-07-2012, 04:43 PM
#109
Former Vendor
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Update from the 25hrs. Just got a call from the Senior Manager of the Competition Performance Division of Toyo @ the 25hrs. and everything is going very well. One car had two tires mounted in the wrong direction and there was a small visible tread splice, they were shown the consumer advisiory, then they remounted the two tires the correct way and within 30 minutes there was no visible tread splice.
There are 20 cars on the Toyo RR's at Thunderhill this weekend. One in particular is Emilio Cervantes, owner of 949 Racing and the 2012 NASA PTC/TTC Champ in the 949 Racing Super Miata. He has not had a single issue with any tread splices. He also has done a significant amount of prior testing on his own dime on the Toyo RR with excellent results.
Toyo invites anyone at the 25hrs to come over to the Toyo compound and chat. Ask all the questions you want!! They are there waiting for you.....
There are 20 cars on the Toyo RR's at Thunderhill this weekend. One in particular is Emilio Cervantes, owner of 949 Racing and the 2012 NASA PTC/TTC Champ in the 949 Racing Super Miata. He has not had a single issue with any tread splices. He also has done a significant amount of prior testing on his own dime on the Toyo RR with excellent results.
Toyo invites anyone at the 25hrs to come over to the Toyo compound and chat. Ask all the questions you want!! They are there waiting for you.....
12-07-2012, 06:48 PM
#110
Burning Brakes
Update from the 25hrs. Just got a call from the Senior Manager of the Competition Performance Division of Toyo @ the 25hrs. and everything is going very well. One car had two tires mounted in the wrong direction and there was a small visible tread splice, they were shown the consumer advisiory, then they remounted the two tires the correct way and within 30 minutes there was no visible tread splice.
There are 20 cars on the Toyo RR's at Thunderhill this weekend. One in particular is Emilio Cervantes, owner of 949 Racing and the 2012 NASA PTC/TTC Champ in the 949 Racing Super Miata. He has not had a single issue with any tread splices. He also has done a significant amount of prior testing on his own dime on the Toyo RR with excellent results.
Toyo invites anyone at the 25hrs to come over to the Toyo compound and chat. Ask all the questions you want!! They are there waiting for you.....
There are 20 cars on the Toyo RR's at Thunderhill this weekend. One in particular is Emilio Cervantes, owner of 949 Racing and the 2012 NASA PTC/TTC Champ in the 949 Racing Super Miata. He has not had a single issue with any tread splices. He also has done a significant amount of prior testing on his own dime on the Toyo RR with excellent results.
Toyo invites anyone at the 25hrs to come over to the Toyo compound and chat. Ask all the questions you want!! They are there waiting for you.....
12-10-2012, 02:56 AM
#112
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Just flying back from the 25. I didn't drive this year, but did get a chance to look at many used RR's, and talk to some of the teams that ran them.
I looked at more than 30 used tires, many down to the cords. Build date ranges from the 31st to 38th week of 2012. All were 205/50/15's. I was told a team had a seam split in practice as Phil mentioned (mounted the opposite way as indicated) but did not see it. To my surprise, I could not find any seams at all in the tires I looked at much less chunks or failed tires. Some of these build dates overlap those that I had my issue with.
I am not saying that it can't or won't happen, but it didn't to the many tires that I saw.
[Edit] I know Toyo is not done working on this issue, but it does seem like proper orientation does at least minimize this issue very significantly. I'll check in when I get updates in the future.
I looked at more than 30 used tires, many down to the cords. Build date ranges from the 31st to 38th week of 2012. All were 205/50/15's. I was told a team had a seam split in practice as Phil mentioned (mounted the opposite way as indicated) but did not see it. To my surprise, I could not find any seams at all in the tires I looked at much less chunks or failed tires. Some of these build dates overlap those that I had my issue with.
I am not saying that it can't or won't happen, but it didn't to the many tires that I saw.
[Edit] I know Toyo is not done working on this issue, but it does seem like proper orientation does at least minimize this issue very significantly. I'll check in when I get updates in the future.
Last edited by Sterling Doc; 12-12-2012 at 08:26 PM.
12-12-2012, 07:41 PM
#113
Burning Brakes
Just flying back from the 25. I didn't drive this year, but did get a chance to look at many used RR's, and talk to some of the teams that ran them.
I looked at more than 30 used tires, many down to the cords. Build date ranges from the 31st to 38th week of 2012. All were 205/50/15's. I was told a team had a seam split in practice as Phil mentioned (mounted the opposite way as indicated) but did not see it. To my surprise, I could not find any seams at all in the tires I looked at much less chunks or failed tires. Some of these build dates overlap those that I had my issue with.
I am not saying that it can't or won't happen, but I didn't to the many tires that I saw.
[Edit] I know Toyo is not done working on this issue, but it does seem like proper orientation does at least minimize this issue very significantly. I'll check in when I get updates in the future.
I looked at more than 30 used tires, many down to the cords. Build date ranges from the 31st to 38th week of 2012. All were 205/50/15's. I was told a team had a seam split in practice as Phil mentioned (mounted the opposite way as indicated) but did not see it. To my surprise, I could not find any seams at all in the tires I looked at much less chunks or failed tires. Some of these build dates overlap those that I had my issue with.
I am not saying that it can't or won't happen, but I didn't to the many tires that I saw.
[Edit] I know Toyo is not done working on this issue, but it does seem like proper orientation does at least minimize this issue very significantly. I'll check in when I get updates in the future.
There is more positive discussion on the topic in this thread: http://mazdaracers.com/topic/3042-na...f-thunderhill/
12-12-2012, 08:05 PM
#115
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Unfortunately, I didn't find anything but 205/50/15's. (Miatas and SE30's) I know that size did have some issues seen, but I don't know if they were to the degree of the 225's or not. I'll ask around if any 225's were used for more feedback.
Edit: found this on the linked Miata site:
The RR's were great for us. Pretty sure we triple stinted one set (9+/-) hours and regularly double stinted both the front/rears. During our last stint our car double stinted rears and I was given sticker fronts to go make up some time, ran our fastest lap of the race after 636 laps and still went 20 more. Rears look very good still after the fact, I drove the fronts pretty hard though and we did a pressure change which we wouldn't have done for longevity. Thankful for Toyo's support we managed to Top 5 overall with 225 RR's.
Also this describing the split:
Ok, now on to the tires: We did run the Toyo RR's on both of our cars. We mounted them prior to learning about the date code thing and by the time we figured it out half of the tires were mounted incorrectly and were already on the way down to California to the race.
On one of the test days on the 99 car we did start to see a very slight seam split on 2 of the tires, but it was only on the improperly mounted tires. One of them was on the front and one was on the back. Toyo re-mounted the 2 tires in question properly for us, then we ran them the remainder of the test day for 3 to 4 more hours on both our 1.6L and 1.8L and had zero issues. By the end of the test day you would never had known the 2 tires with the slight tire issue ever had any issue at all. At the end of the test day we then got all the tires mounted per Toyo’s instructions and we never had a single issue all weekend. The tires performed flawlessly and look forward to running them on the car for our NASA races this upcoming year.
If you have never done this event before it truly is a must do..... This was our 5th year and we look forward to it every year. Jerry and the team at NASA put on an outstanding event.
What is interesting is that the split was described as getting better when remounted in the correct orientation,and run some more. As I understand it, the seams are not a straight butt joint, but overlap at an angle, which is why orientation matters. One set of forces tries to peel up the seam, the other squishes it down (in my best technical terms ;-))
The last interesting tidbit is how fast the RR's were. Most of the Miatas were on Hoosiers, but the Miatacage guys on RR's posted some of the very fastest outright laptimes in E3 - around 2:04 flat on the bypass course.
Edit: found this on the linked Miata site:
The RR's were great for us. Pretty sure we triple stinted one set (9+/-) hours and regularly double stinted both the front/rears. During our last stint our car double stinted rears and I was given sticker fronts to go make up some time, ran our fastest lap of the race after 636 laps and still went 20 more. Rears look very good still after the fact, I drove the fronts pretty hard though and we did a pressure change which we wouldn't have done for longevity. Thankful for Toyo's support we managed to Top 5 overall with 225 RR's.
Also this describing the split:
Ok, now on to the tires: We did run the Toyo RR's on both of our cars. We mounted them prior to learning about the date code thing and by the time we figured it out half of the tires were mounted incorrectly and were already on the way down to California to the race.
On one of the test days on the 99 car we did start to see a very slight seam split on 2 of the tires, but it was only on the improperly mounted tires. One of them was on the front and one was on the back. Toyo re-mounted the 2 tires in question properly for us, then we ran them the remainder of the test day for 3 to 4 more hours on both our 1.6L and 1.8L and had zero issues. By the end of the test day you would never had known the 2 tires with the slight tire issue ever had any issue at all. At the end of the test day we then got all the tires mounted per Toyo’s instructions and we never had a single issue all weekend. The tires performed flawlessly and look forward to running them on the car for our NASA races this upcoming year.
If you have never done this event before it truly is a must do..... This was our 5th year and we look forward to it every year. Jerry and the team at NASA put on an outstanding event.
What is interesting is that the split was described as getting better when remounted in the correct orientation,and run some more. As I understand it, the seams are not a straight butt joint, but overlap at an angle, which is why orientation matters. One set of forces tries to peel up the seam, the other squishes it down (in my best technical terms ;-))
The last interesting tidbit is how fast the RR's were. Most of the Miatas were on Hoosiers, but the Miatacage guys on RR's posted some of the very fastest outright laptimes in E3 - around 2:04 flat on the bypass course.
Last edited by Sterling Doc; 12-12-2012 at 08:25 PM.
12-13-2012, 06:12 PM
#118
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Beaufort, SC
Posts: 1,124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I really don't have any further details. Its just that the only two 944Spec cars running RRs in NASA South had problems with 6 out of 8 tires. The size was 225/50/15. I'm still waiting for a refund from TireRack, which is waiting for Toyo's OK
12-13-2012, 06:27 PM
#119
Burning Brakes
Thanks. As Doc suspected, I had forgotten about your prior post describing a failure despite the correct mounting. Ugh.
12-13-2012, 08:30 PM
#120
Race Director
So Miatacage was on RR's....interesting......and got nearly 9 hours on a set....very impressive...however I was with "Race Engineering West" which also was running a 99 SM, without restrictor just like they were....we were on Hoosier SM6.....and were leading the race for the 1st 4.5 hours until an odd electrical issue cost us the race.....
However the tires DID NOT last long.....I think the 1st set corded the right front at about 4 hours....the right front and right rear wore quite quickly....but we did make it through the race on 4 sets.....with about 1/2 corded by the end....
The good news....we DID set the lap record for E3 at 2:03.7....nearly .5 second faster than everyone else!!!
However the tires DID NOT last long.....I think the 1st set corded the right front at about 4 hours....the right front and right rear wore quite quickly....but we did make it through the race on 4 sets.....with about 1/2 corded by the end....
The good news....we DID set the lap record for E3 at 2:03.7....nearly .5 second faster than everyone else!!!