quickxotica

What is this, kindergarten? Give me a break you guys. Any number of corners at Sears and Laguna are equally/more threatening than TH T1 CW. And some corners at TH are actually safer in the CW direction (T10, T14-T15). Additionally, CW T6 and the CW T15-14 combo are some of my favorite corners anywhere. So fun.

Running T1 CW should make you no more nervous than any other 4th gear corner that has a wall on the outside... no more than that. I've personally even survived a tank-slapper in my old 944 at the exit of T1 CW. I am still here to tell the tale.

Bottom line: It's a racetrack. If YOU drive IT, you will stay on the pavement. If you let IT drive YOU, you will not. Same applies everywhere.

Come join us. It will be fun, and you'll learn by challenging yourself.

winders

You don't get to make the call on what *I* consider safe. That is my call, not yours. Don't challenge my courage either. There is no good reason to run Thunderhill backwards.....

There are plenty of other opportunities to run Thunderhill in the direction I want to run it. Clearly many others feel the same way I do.

Fun?? Learn by challenging myself?? Is that your sales pitch? I do both every time I get on the track...

Scott

quickxotica

Of course. Everyone needs to make their own decision according to their own preferences. You pays your money & makes your choice, so to speak. :-) My kindergarten comment was just ribbing, intended to be good-natured. Believe me when I tell you my driving style has nothing to do with "courage."

With all due respect, that is a statement of opinion, worded as a fact.

Driving is a skill. Skills take practice. TH CW provides the opportunity to practice slightly different skills than CCW. If it's not your cup of tea, no sweat.
I just hate to see all this public hand-wringing like it's the Bermuda Triangle of racetracks. Might scare off lots of folks who have never tried it and should have the opportunity to check it out for themselves within the context of a well run, safety-conscious organization like GGR.

That's all I'm sayin'...

jrgordonsenior

Greg have you considered running BW CCW at your PCA race this November?. You guys have always run # 1 CW, CCW is safer (better runoff) and a complete blast to drive. We run it CCW twice a year with NASA, and once per weekend with POC. Everyone loves it....

Here's a short CCW video from 2 weekends ago:

https://vimeo.com/44839471

winders

John,

Okay, there is no compelling reason to run Thunderhill clockwise. I have yet to hear one from you or anyone else, ever.

It's not like you guys (GGR, the region I belong too) run so many events at Thunderhill as to have everyone bored with the CCW direction. When I tested Thunderhill in the CW direction, there was no difference in skill set required. It was just a different course and it was less safe.

I bet if you were to check with NASA, NCRC, TrackMasters, etc., you would find that they don't run the track CW either.

Scott

lisocayman

Actually here is a direct quote from TrackMasters site about running Thill CW this year...

"This is a rare opportunity to run Thunderhill backwards and over the by pass at T5. Driving the track in this orientation is an absolute BLAST! If you haven't done it you're missing out on a completely different track and experience! Most drivers who attend a CW event are amazed at the track and their experience. "

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but Thill driven backwards is like adding another track in our backyard and I enjoy it. Some people may not enjoy it backwards but many people find it a treat, hopefully I'll see those people in a couple weeks.

Craig

jrgordonsenior

I've only run T-hill once so I don't consider myself a track expert. I just watched my CCW videos again and I have to concur with Scott that the runoff at T1 is definitely dangerous CW. Maybe they could install some padded tire barriers and extend the pit-out wall to the edge of the track, but as it stands now you get loose or get 2-3 abreast coming out at speed and there's definite potential for a bad wreck. Good catch Scott....

winders

I love it. Did you sign up for a Rennlist account just to disagree with me? Did quickxotica ask you to do it?

I am expressing my opinion here and you really aren't going to get me to change my mind.

I enjoyed the different layout but not the added danger. If others want to drive Thunderhill clockwise, more power to them.

Scott

winders

The turn 1 area is my only real issue with Thunderhill run clockwise. Well, the track entry situation isn't ideal either.

Yes, Sears Point has as bad or worse areas. I accept that when I run there. I have 2000 or so laps around Sears Point so I know the dangers well. I have a choice at Thunderhill so I will always choose to run there when the track is run the normal direction.

Scott

Greg Phillips

We have not finalized the directions yet, but the decision will be with Jack & Robert .
Since we are adding the Club Race with the TT, we might not try to change too many things at once

Greg

mooty

there's no need to get all pissed.
like scott, i dont like the wrong direction at TH. as craig L and quickexotica said, i am sure many would love to try something different. it's all good. but i do prefer the regular direction.

many ppl prefer variety.
trackmaster runs all sorts of config, but often times they are part of another group thus their direction is dictated by the main organization. though i do not know the particular incident craig cited is their own event or a combined event. i do a lot of TMR stuff, but after a few times, i no longer run with them when they combine events. it's never good. i dont a lot.

ncrc also tend to variety. day one over top. day two bypass. some like the change. i do not.

speed venture runs BW in mulitiple config as well. if they didn't do that i would do many more of their BW events. but they certainly aren't short of participants and aaron runs top notch events, like GGR, like doug at TMR and dave at NCRC.

just pick the group that fits YOUR need.

Mahler9th

It has been a long time, but I enjoyed running TH clockwise in the past... in my 951. I ran it several times CW with the PCA GGR. Always with the Cyclone. I also instructed during those events.

I found some technical challenges that very extremely fun. More subtleties than CCW.

I did not find turn 1 too scary. Not really an issue.

I have heard that cars get airborne in the Bypass going CW. I would not care too much for that from a drive train perspective. I would also not care to race there CW with the Bypass.

My wife drove our current car there with PCA GGR in the CW direction and found it fun. At the same event, the car's builder was driving a similar car, only instead of an non-stressed (~330 bhp) 3.8 NA engine, his was a moderately-stressed 3.8 TT. So over 2x more power. He hit some interesting speeds in the braking zone at turn 15. He gave another friend a ride, and I am sure she found it quite thrilling.

The GGR put on outstanding events, and Thunderhill CW can be really fun. So as always, I encourage folks to take advantage of the PCA GGR experience. First rate.

I am sure the CDI will remind instructors and students to "sight in" the Cyclone exit in their early laps Saturday. This keeps more cars and less debris on track. For some reason, folks tend to underestimate the sharpness of the cyclone during initial laps in the CW direction and it is a blind exit. A tall cone helps early in the first day, as long as nobody takes it out...

My favorite part of Thunderhill CW is the turn 3-2 complex. My least favorite part is figuring out braking in 9.

U.S.

Ditto what Mike has said. It has been years since I have driven TH in the CW direction, and it is fun. No, it is a blast.

I especially like T9. You have to know when to turn in as you cannot see the apex.

When TMR posted the info about driving the track in this direction, I saw it and did not think much about it, except that it was true.

I have seen 1 car crash at T1 years past. He overcooked the turn and went off the track. He was driving a stock suspension early car with small tires and I think a 3.6 engine. And as I recall he had not been driving a lot at the time.

What you say about the turn being dangerous is true if you don't take the turn correctly. So, take it easy and build your skills if you are so inclined.

You will be carrying a lot of speed at the end of the front straight... so, use your brakes.

Yes, my preference is to drive TH CCW, and yes I am registered for this event.

I will be more than willing to coach folks that so desire to drive the track in this direction if you want to learn the track. I am sure there are other instructors that will also be willing to coach people in the higher run groups as well.

As noted, earlier, I prefer CW and would be just as happy if the direction were changed. And here is the question. Would you and these 15 other folks sign up for this event if it were run in the normal direction?

Who else is willing to coach folks that are hesitant to run CW? JTav. might ask the question of his crew.

Steve T

mooty

perhaps not all 16, but many of us would have; as we were chatting about it right after our fun trip to BW. at that time, several of us had this event on our schedule. i didn't realize the direction until later on. however, most of us did TH two weekends ago with NCRC, so harder to get a hall pass now. but i sure will let them know and egg them on to see if some will sign up.

chasen1211

I would sign up if run in CCW.