Notices
Racing & Drivers Education Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Hub Stands, DIY Alignment (Anyone?)

 
Old 02-02-2012, 10:34 AM
  #1  
wanna911
Super User
Thread Starter
 
wanna911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: With A Manual Transmission
Posts: 4,727
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Hub Stands, DIY Alignment (Anyone?)

I want to start setting up my own car and be able to make a change if need be at the track. Planning on picking up some scales and hubstands. I know how to level the car, adjust toe, sway bars, change shims. I just don't know how to make small adjustments to caster and camber using the eccentrics. Can anyone give advise.

Anyone use digital camber gauges as opposed to smart strings. They are a little annoying to me. I would like to avoid them if possible.

Looking at BBX and Acculign Hub Stands.

Advise welcome.
wanna911 is offline  
Old 02-02-2012, 10:49 AM
  #2  
J richard
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
J richard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,540
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Go to the lizards website and take a look, they use smart strings and camber plate, not sure why you would need much else... I see the same setup in many alms paddocks...
J richard is offline  
Old 02-02-2012, 10:51 AM
  #3  
Van
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Van's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hyde Park, NY
Posts: 11,876
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

The Hub Stands look like a really nice product, but I haven't used them.
Van is offline  
Old 02-02-2012, 11:20 AM
  #4  
fatbillybob
User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,684
Received 6 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

I never liked the string idea and you got to have some referrence points to attach the assembly for the strings. Too much work and easy to get it wrong. I can do everything with:
12"rule
hand cut "L" rule cutdown to fit the rim width perfectly
sears craftsmen laser level
floor leveling tiles
scales

Hubstands would be quite a luxury especially trackside.
fatbillybob is offline  
Old 02-02-2012, 11:28 AM
  #5  
Turn3 Autosport
Former Vendor
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 451
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

We have Hubstands and smart strings. Work well. Look around the paddock at Datyona (tons of pics on line) and you will see everyone using plates similar to the hubstands....

Cheers
Turn3 Autosport is offline  
Old 02-02-2012, 12:00 PM
  #6  
Matt Romanowski
Rennlist Hoonigan
which cost no drachmas
Lifetime Rennlist
Member


Rennlist
Site Sponsor
 
Matt Romanowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 9,692
Received 9 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
I never liked the string idea and you got to have some referrence points to attach the assembly for the strings. Too much work and easy to get it wrong. I can do everything with:
12"rule
hand cut "L" rule cutdown to fit the rim width perfectly
sears craftsmen laser level
floor leveling tiles
scales

Hubstands would be quite a luxury especially trackside.
The referrence point is easy - you just find the center of the car once and mark it.
Matt Romanowski is online now  
Old 02-02-2012, 12:11 PM
  #7  
Paul 996
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Paul 996's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,945
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I am a little confused.... You use smart strings as a method of setting Toe not Camber.

Is there any use of smart strings for camber?

Setting camber via the eccentrics is as easy as loosening the locking bolt an then rotating the cam with a socket until you achieve the camber you desire.

Originally Posted by wanna911 View Post
I want to start setting up my own car and be able to make a change if need be at the track. Planning on picking up some scales and hubstands. I know how to level the car, adjust toe, sway bars, change shims. I just don't know how to make small adjustments to caster and camber using the eccentrics. Can anyone give advise.

Anyone use digital camber gauges as opposed to smart strings. They are a little annoying to me. I would like to avoid them if possible.

Looking at BBX and Acculign Hub Stands.

Advise welcome.
Paul 996 is offline  
Old 02-02-2012, 12:44 PM
  #8  
Mahler9th
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Mahler9th's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 1,229
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

What kind of car is it? You mention shims, so I don't think it is a trailing arm 911 or a 944 family car.

I have plenty of experience with the above-mentioned cars, but none with the newer multi-link cars.

I will assume your car is a Porsche multi-link car.

If you don't get answers here, you might visit a friendly local shop with experience with your type of car, and chat with them. Back in the day, PCA groups would have tech sessions at shops, and sometimes we could get DIY-helpful perspective on things like alignment.

A local and friendly race team racing a car like yours might be happy to have a chat about it in person.

Getting your hands on the factory documentation that describes which "pots to tweak" to affect these changes might be helpful.

Connecting with businesses that make suspension parts for a car like yours, even by telephone, could prove fruitful. Places like Elephant Racing and Racers Edge make parts for some cars.

I might also ping the appropriate person on the PCA tech committee run by Peter Smith, or Peter Smith himself. When I had my 993, Peter did the alignment.

And of course, if you post in the model-specific forum someone may respond that does not visit here.

You do not need to have on-vehicle reference points to use strings to set toe.

The process is described in a lot of places including the Fred Puhn book, which is a great reference. I remember visiting with Craig Watkins when he was prototyping SmartStrings. I ended up making my own, but his product has proven to be very convenient for a large number of professional and non-pro users. And you can become quite adroit with the string method without too much trouble. The SmartStrings instructions can be downloaded for free, and can help even if you do not buy the product.

But of course some folks prefer other ways to do it. Interestingly, whenever I have seen at the track alignment done for a sports car or Indy car, I have seen strings. At least that is my impression.
Mahler9th is offline  
Old 02-02-2012, 02:02 PM
  #9  
wanna911
Super User
Thread Starter
 
wanna911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: With A Manual Transmission
Posts: 4,727
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Paul 996 View Post
I am a little confused.... You use smart strings as a method of setting Toe not Camber.

Is there any use of smart strings for camber?

Setting camber via the eccentrics is as easy as loosening the locking bolt an then rotating the cam with a socket until you achieve the camber you desire.
Correct, I said I know how to adjust, but you have to measure everything as well. I planned on digital caster camber gauge, and hoped there might be something similar for toe, but if not, smart strings it is.


My car is a 996 (Turbo). Think I know a few guys who could show me what to do.
wanna911 is offline  
Old 02-02-2012, 02:17 PM
  #10  
wanna911
Super User
Thread Starter
 
wanna911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: With A Manual Transmission
Posts: 4,727
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Has anyone used laser strings??
wanna911 is offline  
Old 02-02-2012, 03:07 PM
  #11  
disasterman
User
 
disasterman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 1,842
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

My .02 cents - I do my own setup in my home shop, camber, alignment, caster and corner balance. Hub stands could help but my changes are minor after putting the initial setup on the car. The most important thing for me is to record my results carefully and completely. If I don't know where I have been, I can't understand the benefit of change. The only time you really want to take your alignment/setup equipment it to the track is for a testing day with plenty of time. Don't plan on getting useful feedback at a DE with a 20 minute session. We also take the complete set of equipment to Nationals to confirm settings or realign after an incident (for me and my co-racers). If you get the equipment, work on it at home to get the hang of putting a complete setup on the car first. Use something like the Intercomp setup sheets to not miss anything. Do some research regarding a good base setup and start there.

Also record your setup before you start. We just purchased a M3 endurance race car, the original setup was nicely corner balanced but the drivers side toe out was over 10mm, the passenger side was 7mm out.
disasterman is offline  
Old 02-02-2012, 03:07 PM
  #12  
teamking
User
 
teamking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 707
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
I never liked the string idea and you got to have some referrence points to attach the assembly for the strings. Too much work and easy to get it wrong. I can do everything with:
12"rule
hand cut "L" rule cutdown to fit the rim width perfectly
sears craftsmen laser level
floor leveling tiles
scales

Hubstands would be quite a luxury especially trackside.
How do you do toe with that?
teamking is offline  
Old 02-02-2012, 03:38 PM
  #13  
shiners780
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,008
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I have seen the HubStands in use...they are slick. They make chassis adjustments much quicker and easier.
shiners780 is offline  
Old 02-02-2012, 04:19 PM
  #14  
dizzyj
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
dizzyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,017
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Interesting timing. I've been researching how to do my own toe alignment using jack stands and string, but the examples I've seen only work if your wheels are all the same size. Taking that concept it seemed like if I took the centerline of the car and went out I could do the same sort of thing. This looks exactly like what smart strings does.

Not sure how much they cost, but it seems like it would be possible to rig something up from home depot for not much $$
dizzyj is offline  
Old 02-02-2012, 05:31 PM
  #15  
disasterman
User
 
disasterman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 1,842
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default $$$$$$

Hub stands are great but one more item on top of an expensive pile of equipment.

Scales
Ramps & leveling platform
Turning Plates
Smart Strings
Digital caster camber gauge w/magnetic adapter
Rim Clamp

That's about $5K

Buy quality equipment from the outset to make your life easier. I recommend the Intercomp wheel clamp camber tool with magnetic gauge. Not all scales are created equally, some flex. It is much easier and consistent than a 3 point gauge held to the wheel.

Reference points are better than strings if you are aligning the same car on a regular basis. Establish reference points on a frame/body point and cut a measuring rod to your zero.

Don't forget about ride height, level your scales, even your tire pressures.
disasterman is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Hub Stands, DIY Alignment (Anyone?)


Contact Us - About Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: