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The question is not the right one. Breaking the rules, its a given in PCA club racing, and any other form of racing, or for that matter, where ever a rule exists someone is breaking the rule, racing or otherwise.
Think a better question is does PCA do a reasonable job of enforcing the rules for the purpose of keeping the playing field level?
My answer is yes, given the resources available to them. Having worked with PCA officials and their scruts for decades, I believe PCA as an organization does as good a job as can be expected and their intentions are the best. PCA cares about enforcing their rules as much, and more often more, as any club race organization I have worked with during my 40+ years in the sport.
So again, I just want to say that at the end of the day this is more interesting to me as a human factors discussion and is wholly unimportant to me as a racer, BUT two things . . .
1) E class has a power to weight of 13.25 for the top cars and F class Boxster top class drivers have 11.8. How is it possible for E class to beat F by 3 seconds at the Glen and by the way the skew is not the same at every track AND one track has times from Corey in an E and an F and he is much faster in the F car. Just saying . . .
2) Isn't it possible with data to easily calculate HP or torque of a car? Let me rephrase that because I know the answer. The calculation is trivial once one has researched the cars drag factor. the gear ratios, and tire diameter. This means no dynos needed; just data and math. If you think someone is cheating just demand their data file and run it through the data test to determine the HP.
Just wondering . . .
EDIT In fact, I'll go so far as to propose a rule change next year. All podium finishers must submit their data files and a HP or torque must be determined for the winners before results are posted.
Watch the videos of the top E class drivers at the Glen they are some of the best in PCA Club Racing. E is a very competitive class Where F, and G class is not very populated so the best drivers are elsewhere
So again, I just want to say that at the end of the day this is more interesting to me as a human factors discussion and is wholly unimportant to me as a racer, BUT two things . . .
1) E class has a power to weight of 13.25 for the top cars and F class Boxster top class drivers have 11.8. How is it possible for E class to beat F by 3 seconds at the Glen and by the way the skew is not the same at every track AND one track has times from Corey in an E and an F and he is much faster in the F car. Just saying . . .
.
1) e has attracted very good drivers, many of them.
2) fast lap times beget faster lap times, which is what is happening with such a competitive field in e
3) put 78-89 size brake kits that allow fitment of 15 inch wheels and the 15 inch wheels on a f class 964 (getting the gearing and lower c.o.g. enjoyed by the well prepped e cars) and see what happens to lap times in F... but you can't do that because 964s never came with 15 inch wheels from the factory anyway...
no cheating, just an amazing field in E plus great performance possibilities within the rule book for the cars.
Watch the videos of the top E class drivers at the Glen they are some of the best in PCA Club Racing. E is a very competitive class Where F, and G class is not very populated so the best drivers are elsewhere
Originally Posted by FredC
1) e has attracted very good drivers, many of them.
2) fast lap times beget faster lap times, which is what is happening with such a competitive field in e
3) put 78-89 size brake kits that allow fitment of 15 inch wheels and the 15 inch wheels on a f class 964 (getting the gearing and lower c.o.g. enjoyed by the well prepped e cars) and see what happens to lap times in F... but you can't do that because 964s never came with 15 inch wheels from the factory anyway...
no cheating, just an amazing field in E plus great performance possibilities within the rule book for the cars.
It may be drivers and it may be brakes, but the truth is the data doesn't lie and determining the torque of the cars would be trivial.
1) e has attracted very good drivers, many of them.
2) fast lap times beget faster lap times, which is what is happening with such a competitive field in e
3) put 78-89 size brake kits that allow fitment of 15 inch wheels and the 15 inch wheels on a f class 964 (getting the gearing and lower c.o.g. enjoyed by the well prepped e cars) and see what happens to lap times in F... but you can't do that because 964s never came with 15 inch wheels from the factory anyway...
no cheating, just an amazing field in E plus great performance possibilities within the rule book for the cars.
Very close to what I was thinking what I read post 261 which was:
1. the driver
2. the driver
3. the driver
4. 15s in the boot.
Drivers who respect the sport try not to "cheat". I would say that every competitor searches for ways to make their car better than the rest of the field, but try to stay within specs and regulations, thus creating an "unfair advantage". (Great book to read by the way)
When it comes down to actually getting on track though, there is no wiggle room for one car to be significantly faster than another car, and still meet the spec requirements. If a car is out of spec, it will be caught.
Even if drivers are "cheating" with their cars, it is still the nut behind the steering wheel that makes the difference. A mediocre driver can be competitive in a great car, but a great driver is competitive in any car.
Actually it's even easier than I thought to check a cars relative performance. Here is a comparison of acceleration for my 924, Boxster S, and Cayman R. The differences in acceleration due to power to weight are immediately obvious. This seems like a way better solution than having folks tear apart their cars on site, and no need to hire a dyno.
1) e has attracted very good drivers, many of them.
2) fast lap times beget faster lap times, which is what is happening with such a competitive field in e
3) put 78-89 size brake kits that allow fitment of 15 inch wheels and the 15 inch wheels on a f class 964 (getting the gearing and lower c.o.g. enjoyed by the well prepped e cars) and see what happens to lap times in F... but you can't do that because 964s never came with 15 inch wheels from the factory anyway...
no cheating, just an amazing field in E plus great performance possibilities within the rule book for the cars.
Not nearly as easy to detect a spec car with an extra 10hp using data. The draft, track conditions, and many other factors can mask that subtle of a difference.
__________________ Todd Lamb
Atlanta Speedwerks www.ATLspeedwerks.com
Driver Coaching / Trackside Support / Race Prep / Car Builds
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1)... but you can't do that because 964s never came with 15 inch wheels from the factory anyway...
PCA rule book:
Wheel type, style, and diameter are free, providing wheel meets or exceeds factory safety specifications.
Wheel width may be no more than one inch wider than originally supplied wheel. Any tire combination which fits inside the stock body without rubbing and without modification exceeding “rolling” or “grinding” of the outer fender lip is allowed.
06-24-2017, 12:34 PM
