996 front sway bar setting trends with track spring rates
10-12-2010, 09:53 PM
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996 front sway bar setting trends with track spring rates
since i had nothing to do today i finally sat down and went over my note book on all the settings id used on the front bar on my car and i noted somewhat surprisingly that even since updating my spring rates quite some time back, and removing the appallingly low front rate of the GT3, i dont seem to have been running any less front bar, or indeed rear bar when you average it out.
this got me thinking since the front and rear bars on these cars seem at first glance to be pretty heavily mismatched, though the fact that the cup doesnt run a larger rear bar would tend to suggest that this may not be as it seems, i would have thought that the big bar and weak front spring rate would have seen me start running an averagely less stiff bar once i went up to a proper rate of spring.
im now just wondering if my "trend" as it were is more based out of habit and whether theres more to be had from this car. in short i wonder that i started up near that end of the bar and so thats where i stayed so to speak even though i consider myself a thorough settings tweaker for each track i run on.
it would seem that my prevelance is full stiff front, 1 off full stiff rear in the main with an occassional 1 more step soft on the rear and seldom any change on the front that sticks.
id be interested to hear where others find themselves with their bars generally if you are running something like motons or the usual 700/900 spring rates on your car.
im curious to see if most are there or there abouts or if indeed after all ive ended up subconsciously not moving much as a result of early experience.
this got me thinking since the front and rear bars on these cars seem at first glance to be pretty heavily mismatched, though the fact that the cup doesnt run a larger rear bar would tend to suggest that this may not be as it seems, i would have thought that the big bar and weak front spring rate would have seen me start running an averagely less stiff bar once i went up to a proper rate of spring.
im now just wondering if my "trend" as it were is more based out of habit and whether theres more to be had from this car. in short i wonder that i started up near that end of the bar and so thats where i stayed so to speak even though i consider myself a thorough settings tweaker for each track i run on.
it would seem that my prevelance is full stiff front, 1 off full stiff rear in the main with an occassional 1 more step soft on the rear and seldom any change on the front that sticks.
id be interested to hear where others find themselves with their bars generally if you are running something like motons or the usual 700/900 spring rates on your car.
im curious to see if most are there or there abouts or if indeed after all ive ended up subconsciously not moving much as a result of early experience.
10-13-2010, 09:17 PM
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since i had nothing to do today i finally sat down and went over my note book on all the settings id used on the front bar on my car and i noted somewhat surprisingly that even since updating my spring rates quite some time back, and removing the appallingly low front rate of the GT3, i dont seem to have been running any less front bar, or indeed rear bar when you average it out.
this got me thinking since the front and rear bars on these cars seem at first glance to be pretty heavily mismatched, though the fact that the cup doesnt run a larger rear bar would tend to suggest that this may not be as it seems, i would have thought that the big bar and weak front spring rate would have seen me start running an averagely less stiff bar once i went up to a proper rate of spring.
im now just wondering if my "trend" as it were is more based out of habit and whether theres more to be had from this car. in short i wonder that i started up near that end of the bar and so thats where i stayed so to speak even though i consider myself a thorough settings tweaker for each track i run on.
it would seem that my prevelance is full stiff front, 1 off full stiff rear in the main with an occassional 1 more step soft on the rear and seldom any change on the front that sticks.
id be interested to hear where others find themselves with their bars generally if you are running something like motons or the usual 700/900 spring rates on your car.
im curious to see if most are there or there abouts or if indeed after all ive ended up subconsciously not moving much as a result of early experience.
this got me thinking since the front and rear bars on these cars seem at first glance to be pretty heavily mismatched, though the fact that the cup doesnt run a larger rear bar would tend to suggest that this may not be as it seems, i would have thought that the big bar and weak front spring rate would have seen me start running an averagely less stiff bar once i went up to a proper rate of spring.
im now just wondering if my "trend" as it were is more based out of habit and whether theres more to be had from this car. in short i wonder that i started up near that end of the bar and so thats where i stayed so to speak even though i consider myself a thorough settings tweaker for each track i run on.
it would seem that my prevelance is full stiff front, 1 off full stiff rear in the main with an occassional 1 more step soft on the rear and seldom any change on the front that sticks.
id be interested to hear where others find themselves with their bars generally if you are running something like motons or the usual 700/900 spring rates on your car.
im curious to see if most are there or there abouts or if indeed after all ive ended up subconsciously not moving much as a result of early experience.
With my 6-cup I left the front bar 1-off full stiff, and the rear usually full stiff but occasionally 1-off. The cup though has much stiffer springs, 1400/1500 IIRC. I may try 1000/1200 springs just for the hell of it, but my car is pretty close to perfect right now and video from the rear shows it doesn't lean. I ran this past weekend at Las Vegas Motorspeedway on their outdoor track with 5 tight "buttonhook" turns. I expected to soften the front bar from full stiff but surprisingly didn't need to. Running the front bar full stiff gives me more control over the rear end which in turn alludes confidence. Very important when taking high speed sweepers at the edge....
Are you on slicks or ?.....
10-14-2010, 11:43 AM
#4
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I'm heavier than JR and on R6's but also with JRZ doubles with 700/900 springs. I'll check but I think the bars are both at or near middle setting for fast track (Road Atl).
I'm not very good at set up (I'll drive anything) but it feels quite neutral to me. A friend (current GT3/ex-Koni) who's opinion I trust just drove it and really liked the set up too. As always YMMV.
I'm not very good at set up (I'll drive anything) but it feels quite neutral to me. A friend (current GT3/ex-Koni) who's opinion I trust just drove it and really liked the set up too. As always YMMV.
10-14-2010, 12:28 PM
#5
I am with JR, 99' 996 3.4 2600 without driver. 700/900 double JRZ & BFG R1's 245 / 285. Full front / one off full rear on bars. Works well with a rear wing & GT3 front bumper. Your aero kit on your car may change what you have to do with the bars...
10-14-2010, 01:08 PM
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Good point about the wing Bryan. I run the cup wing too.
Another point to consider when setting up these cars is ride height. I think the cup car specified heights are too low unless you bump steer the car, but the rake is really, really important as that affects front grip, breaking, and corner entry....
Another point to consider when setting up these cars is ride height. I think the cup car specified heights are too low unless you bump steer the car, but the rake is really, really important as that affects front grip, breaking, and corner entry....
10-14-2010, 06:09 PM
#7
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How much wing do you guys have on at faster tracks- I have virtually none now. I seem to have great mechanical grip (clearly not going fast enough) and am trying to find more top speed on straights.
I even removed the front splitter and that didn't seem to make much difference (speed or stability). Btw that was unintentional after I did some cultivating off track at RA @ T7 trying to find more exit speed before the long back straight.
I even removed the front splitter and that didn't seem to make much difference (speed or stability). Btw that was unintentional after I did some cultivating off track at RA @ T7 trying to find more exit speed before the long back straight.
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10-14-2010, 09:26 PM
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How much wing do you guys have on at faster tracks- I have virtually none now. I seem to have great mechanical grip (clearly not going fast enough) and am trying to find more top speed on straights.
I even removed the front splitter and that didn't seem to make much difference (speed or stability). Btw that was unintentional after I did some cultivating off track at RA @ T7 trying to find more exit speed before the long back straight.
I even removed the front splitter and that didn't seem to make much difference (speed or stability). Btw that was unintentional after I did some cultivating off track at RA @ T7 trying to find more exit speed before the long back straight.
10-15-2010, 10:09 AM
#9
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My car which weighs in at 2885 with driver is more stiffly sprung than you guys, 1000/1500 if I am reading my notes right. Using Moton CS and Hoosier R80/100.
Front sway is set in the middle, rear is one off full stiff. Car was tuned on a tight, twisty track (MSR Cresson). Pat Long drove the car there and commented 'car is perfect, don't change the set-up'.
On a faster track like TWS I stiffen the front sway by one notch.
Rake is listed as -0.25. I assume this is in inches?
Front sway is set in the middle, rear is one off full stiff. Car was tuned on a tight, twisty track (MSR Cresson). Pat Long drove the car there and commented 'car is perfect, don't change the set-up'.
On a faster track like TWS I stiffen the front sway by one notch.
Rake is listed as -0.25. I assume this is in inches?
10-15-2010, 12:48 PM
#10
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My car which weighs in at 2885 with driver is more stiffly sprung than you guys, 1000/1500 if I am reading my notes right. Using Moton CS and Hoosier R80/100.
Front sway is set in the middle, rear is one off full stiff. Car was tuned on a tight, twisty track (MSR Cresson). Pat Long drove the car there and commented 'car is perfect, don't change the set-up'.
On a faster track like TWS I stiffen the front sway by one notch.
Rake is listed as -0.25. I assume this is in inches?
Front sway is set in the middle, rear is one off full stiff. Car was tuned on a tight, twisty track (MSR Cresson). Pat Long drove the car there and commented 'car is perfect, don't change the set-up'.
On a faster track like TWS I stiffen the front sway by one notch.
Rake is listed as -0.25. I assume this is in inches?
Bars actually vary quite a bit dependent on tracks for us.
Also, your shock can pressure can play into this some as well as how stiff each chassis is.
10-15-2010, 12:52 PM
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My car which weighs in at 2885 with driver is more stiffly sprung than you guys, 1000/1500 if I am reading my notes right. Using Moton CS and Hoosier R80/100.
Front sway is set in the middle, rear is one off full stiff. Car was tuned on a tight, twisty track (MSR Cresson). Pat Long drove the car there and commented 'car is perfect, don't change the set-up'.
On a faster track like TWS I stiffen the front sway by one notch.
Rake is listed as -0.25. I assume this is in inches?
Front sway is set in the middle, rear is one off full stiff. Car was tuned on a tight, twisty track (MSR Cresson). Pat Long drove the car there and commented 'car is perfect, don't change the set-up'.
On a faster track like TWS I stiffen the front sway by one notch.
Rake is listed as -0.25. I assume this is in inches?
I would think your rear end would be a handful with that setup. Do IRC that you're running 320's in the rear? That might explain the sucess of your bar setup. With my 265/305 Hoosiers I'd be in the weeds a lot....
As for rake, I would ask your setup guy how your's compares to a 6-cup....
Rob, got Ranger tickets? Will CJ pitch at home, maybe Wednesday?
10-15-2010, 02:14 PM
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Hey JR, don't you find it interesting that we are the softies in the group ?
BTW - you had 700lbs on us at the Nat's (we were right at 3300lbs w/driver) and we still had softer springs than you.
We already started pulling the lead out to get ready for next year. GTS4 here we come !
10-15-2010, 04:29 PM
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Hey JR, don't you find it interesting that we are the softies in the group ?
BTW - you had 700lbs on us at the Nat's (we were right at 3300lbs w/driver) and we still had softer springs than you.
We already started pulling the lead out to get ready for next year. GTS4 here we come !
BTW - you had 700lbs on us at the Nat's (we were right at 3300lbs w/driver) and we still had softer springs than you.
We already started pulling the lead out to get ready for next year. GTS4 here we come !
BTW, I had to add over 100 lbs. at the Nationals due to my inflated dyno results. I ran at 2750 unfortunately but that's still 550 lbs. more than you guys weighed. GTS4 doesn't carry the .75 penalty for slicks I had to endure in ST2. I could weigh around 2500 and stay in that class
.....
10-15-2010, 10:37 PM
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Yep I think spring rates should be raised incrementally. You actually can be too stiff especially with an amateur driver. I had my ALMS/Grand Am pro in the car there at Miller and asked if he thought the car would benefit from stiffer springs. He said no it's perfect, leave the car alone.
BTW, I had to add over 100 lbs. at the Nationals due to my inflated dyno results. I ran at 2750 unfortunately but that's still 550 lbs. more than you guys weighed. GTS4 doesn't carry the .75 penalty for slicks I had to endure in ST2. I could weigh around 2500 and stay in that class .....
BTW, I had to add over 100 lbs. at the Nationals due to my inflated dyno results. I ran at 2750 unfortunately but that's still 550 lbs. more than you guys weighed. GTS4 doesn't carry the .75 penalty for slicks I had to endure in ST2. I could weigh around 2500 and stay in that class
.....I knew you had to add weight but didn't remember how much. That damn Miller dyno always reads higher for some reason. We had to fatten our car up as well due to the higher reading dyno runs. I know Vali had to as well, and he cut his close in the final race. I wasn't willing to risk being close on weight and losing in the tech shed so I just loaded her up with lead to make sure, thus the 3300 lb pig.
10-16-2010, 02:45 PM
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I would think your rear end would be a handful with that setup. Do IRC that you're running 320's in the rear? That might explain the sucess of your bar setup. With my 265/305 Hoosiers I'd be in the weeds a lot....
As for rake, I would ask your setup guy how your's compares to a 6-cup....
Rob, got Ranger tickets? Will CJ pitch at home, maybe Wednesday?
As for rake, I would ask your setup guy how your's compares to a 6-cup....
Rob, got Ranger tickets? Will CJ pitch at home, maybe Wednesday?
I'm at Hallett right now running the air cooled 911. CJ pitched great last night, was painful watching the team blow it in the 8th.