Summit Point Club Race - Who's in...?
10-06-2010, 04:25 PM
#391
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thank you! i am a very lucky man indeed, and she has a lot more brains than i do as well. Maybe I could convince her to be a grid girl at the next race or convince Hoosier to offer us contingencies if she dresses up as a "Hoosier girl"! lol
10-06-2010, 04:27 PM
#392
Rennlist Member
Hey Mag, thanks for stating your case and giving objective information. I'm not at all referring to you though, I was well aware of your presence, but I'm talking about the red 944T that you were chasing. Anyway, as far as I know, our class (944SuperCup) does not allow aero mods that were not OEM. I'd love a bigger splitter, spoiler and dive planes otherwise.
I'll be back after I view your videos, I gotta screw in a few implants first!
I'll be back after I view your videos, I gotta screw in a few implants first!
10-06-2010, 04:33 PM
#393
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Hey Mag, thanks for stating your case and giving objective information. I'm not at all referring to you though, I was well aware of your presence, but I'm talking about the red 944T that you were chasing. Anyway, as far as I know, our class (944SuperCup) does not allow aero mods that were not OEM. I'd love a bigger splitter, spoiler and dive planes otherwise.
I'll be back after I view your videos, I gotta screw in a few implants first!
I'll be back after I view your videos, I gotta screw in a few implants first!
sorry. I was in the middle of writing my rant when you posted your second post clarifying who you were referring to. FWIW, Ive never met the guy in the red 944 before. I did go find him after the race to thank him for a fun battle. Seemed like a nice dude. He did mention that 944 SuperCup? (turbos) werent going to be a class next year. I told him to come run GTS2 and turn down the boost some. I think there are 3 other guys in the MidAtl region who have already done this (Noel Hall, Sloan Palitti(sp) and Greg Adelman)
10-06-2010, 05:03 PM
#394
Drifting
You know the saying (which the latest posts smell like): If you finish ahead of me, you're cheating, if you finishing behind me, you suck!!!
Nice vids and data.
Nice vids and data.
I dont wanna have to throw my hat into this cheating stuff, or the silly protests that were going on at WG this event, but since this involves me, hopefully I can clarify some. I never like even having to "defend" myself or anyone else who is accused of cheating. It typically leads nowhere anyways.
I am the driver of the Blue/White M3. I have been racing since 2004. I was in GTS3 this year until my engine blew up due to an oil pump nut backing off. I scrambed to get a motor put in before this event. I had it dyno'd 3 days before the event. I even had restrictor plates overnighted to me to have on the dyno in case they were needed. I pulled pretty crappy numbers and that was mainly a result of not having time to get the motor tuned. Here is my dyno sheet:
http://brakeswapracing.com/ericwong/...kyardS52AF.jpg
I can also post my Innovate LM1 data too if anyone wants. My air/fuel ratios were between 10-11 for the entire weekend. I can also take pictures of my spark plugs and O2 sensor if you like. Obviously the car was running super rich which was creating low HP #s.
Now more in regards to cheating and why I can pull away, etc etc. I mean, come on. You 944 guys (and my 2 fellow GTS2 competition) werent even running ANY serious aero. You dont think a car with properly setup aero stands to gain some time at Watkins Glen? Further, you can see in the video, everyone else's braking points are WAY earlier. You dont think that by braking less and getting on the gas sooner in T1 helps timewise between T1 and the bus stop? Do I need to show data? OK, here:
http://brakeswapracing.com/ericwong/...10/WGdata2.pdf
The black line was me having taken 200#s out of the car for Sunday in GTS3. The green line is Sat in GTS2. Just that alone was good for 1 sec. between T1 and Bus Stop. I could even publish even more data that shows different T1 entry MPH and their effects by the time you get to the bus stop.
Here are MY videos and you can judge for yourself.
Video #1: GTS2 Sat Race. You dont think Im catching the 944 in front because of braking and carrying more momentum? If I was cheating and had more power, how the hell does he pull me on every straight? O gee, Im only catching him in the corners...
http://vimeo.com/15546383
Video #2: GTS3 Sun race: Look at all the GTS3 cars pull from me. I guess my magical switch for cheating didnt work on Sunday. How did I catch those guys???!!
http://vimeo.com/15525278
Video #3: GTS3 Sun race from behind. Gee, that Volvo is reported to have 270-300whp. Look at him close on me everywhere, yet I still manage to stay ahead and turn 2 secs a lap faster OMG!??!! HOW!!!! Must be cheating.
http://vimeo.com/15542993
Seriously guys... sometimes people just have a more setup car and a driver to boot. As I mentioned in the NASAForum thread, come down to VIR this weekend. Your laptimes between WG and VIR should be similar. See how you do versus some other good drivers out of region. And on top of it all, we HAVE a dyno. Feel free to protest. And by protest I do not mean protesting someone for not having front #s. But Im not going to get into that.
Im 99% sure I will be at NJMP at the end of the month. It is reported that there will also be a dyno there. I had wanted to run GTS3 to really put a sock into that Volvo's mouth, but thanks to this thread, I might sign up for both GTS2 and GTS3.
EDIT: Furthermore, BMWCCA JP cars (230-240rwhp) turn 208s at WG with IP cars well below 207s. My fastest time on Sun in (GTS2.5 trim) was a 209.X, my Sat time was a 211.3. and FUTHERfurthermore, I always try to make sure my car has a legit dyno for just these reasons. You go somewhere and lay the smackdown, but no one even thinks to reason it may be setup/skill. Trust me, this weekend at VIR, I **WILL** be at the dyno on Friday optimizing my power/weight ratio.
Here is another thing I was thinking about. If you (or whomever is accusing me of cheating) doesnt think their car can go any faster, I'll make a bet with you. I'll hire Mike Skeen for you ($750 value). If he cannot knock your laptimes down, Ill pay for his services. If he does beat you by 1-2 seconds, you pay his services + apologize to me publically and have to put a sticker on your car saying you falsely accused someone for cheating for the entire 2011 season. I hired Mike to do coaching at Summit Point. Him getting on the gas in T6 a split second before I did resulted in a 1.25 second gap between T6 and T10.
I am the driver of the Blue/White M3. I have been racing since 2004. I was in GTS3 this year until my engine blew up due to an oil pump nut backing off. I scrambed to get a motor put in before this event. I had it dyno'd 3 days before the event. I even had restrictor plates overnighted to me to have on the dyno in case they were needed. I pulled pretty crappy numbers and that was mainly a result of not having time to get the motor tuned. Here is my dyno sheet:
http://brakeswapracing.com/ericwong/...kyardS52AF.jpg
I can also post my Innovate LM1 data too if anyone wants. My air/fuel ratios were between 10-11 for the entire weekend. I can also take pictures of my spark plugs and O2 sensor if you like. Obviously the car was running super rich which was creating low HP #s.
Now more in regards to cheating and why I can pull away, etc etc. I mean, come on. You 944 guys (and my 2 fellow GTS2 competition) werent even running ANY serious aero. You dont think a car with properly setup aero stands to gain some time at Watkins Glen? Further, you can see in the video, everyone else's braking points are WAY earlier. You dont think that by braking less and getting on the gas sooner in T1 helps timewise between T1 and the bus stop? Do I need to show data? OK, here:
http://brakeswapracing.com/ericwong/...10/WGdata2.pdf
The black line was me having taken 200#s out of the car for Sunday in GTS3. The green line is Sat in GTS2. Just that alone was good for 1 sec. between T1 and Bus Stop. I could even publish even more data that shows different T1 entry MPH and their effects by the time you get to the bus stop.
Here are MY videos and you can judge for yourself.
Video #1: GTS2 Sat Race. You dont think Im catching the 944 in front because of braking and carrying more momentum? If I was cheating and had more power, how the hell does he pull me on every straight? O gee, Im only catching him in the corners...
http://vimeo.com/15546383
Video #2: GTS3 Sun race: Look at all the GTS3 cars pull from me. I guess my magical switch for cheating didnt work on Sunday. How did I catch those guys???!!
http://vimeo.com/15525278
Video #3: GTS3 Sun race from behind. Gee, that Volvo is reported to have 270-300whp. Look at him close on me everywhere, yet I still manage to stay ahead and turn 2 secs a lap faster OMG!??!! HOW!!!! Must be cheating.
http://vimeo.com/15542993
Seriously guys... sometimes people just have a more setup car and a driver to boot. As I mentioned in the NASAForum thread, come down to VIR this weekend. Your laptimes between WG and VIR should be similar. See how you do versus some other good drivers out of region. And on top of it all, we HAVE a dyno. Feel free to protest. And by protest I do not mean protesting someone for not having front #s. But Im not going to get into that.
Im 99% sure I will be at NJMP at the end of the month. It is reported that there will also be a dyno there. I had wanted to run GTS3 to really put a sock into that Volvo's mouth, but thanks to this thread, I might sign up for both GTS2 and GTS3.
EDIT: Furthermore, BMWCCA JP cars (230-240rwhp) turn 208s at WG with IP cars well below 207s. My fastest time on Sun in (GTS2.5 trim) was a 209.X, my Sat time was a 211.3. and FUTHERfurthermore, I always try to make sure my car has a legit dyno for just these reasons. You go somewhere and lay the smackdown, but no one even thinks to reason it may be setup/skill. Trust me, this weekend at VIR, I **WILL** be at the dyno on Friday optimizing my power/weight ratio.
Here is another thing I was thinking about. If you (or whomever is accusing me of cheating) doesnt think their car can go any faster, I'll make a bet with you. I'll hire Mike Skeen for you ($750 value). If he cannot knock your laptimes down, Ill pay for his services. If he does beat you by 1-2 seconds, you pay his services + apologize to me publically and have to put a sticker on your car saying you falsely accused someone for cheating for the entire 2011 season. I hired Mike to do coaching at Summit Point. Him getting on the gas in T6 a split second before I did resulted in a 1.25 second gap between T6 and T10.
10-06-2010, 05:12 PM
#395
Rennlist Member
I love the discussion but apologize for derailing the thread, totally my bad.
10-06-2010, 05:16 PM
#396
Drifting
Good line, Fred! But that's not what we're saying at all. 944SC is a spec class, which means close racing. It has run afoul and will now be disbanded because of inability to establish parity between the Turbos and NA's. Moreover, when three or four of us are duking it out door to door and racing really close like Spec Miatas, ya gotta wonder when one guy is so easily 3-4 sec/lap faster, and gaining predominantly on uphill straightaways.
I love the discussion but apologize for derailing the thread, totally my bad.
I love the discussion but apologize for derailing the thread, totally my bad.
10-06-2010, 05:31 PM
#397
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Guys, I refrain from posting a lot on Rennlist because you can't please everyone all of the time. There is much love for the Rennlisters and the PCA guys on my part always. I do want to say though, that I have gotten to know Eric Wong really well over the years and that although I have never raced in his class, I have always raced in the GTS run group with him for about four years now w/ Mid Atlantic NASA. He is a fair straight shooter and he is very very fast. He is a good dude too. He continues to improve every year and often does get dynoed with passing results. The fact of the matter is that some people continue to improve and continue to get faster as do their cars within legal limits. Everyone knows Chris Musante in his GT3R '72 911. He is ridiculously fast and often is 1st, 2nd, or third overall in his run groups with fast 997 Cup cars even though he is a GT3R car. He held the GT3R track record at Summit Point with a 1:15.5 until this weekend when I ran a 1:14.6 the first sprint race. I bring this up because I am and have always been legal, and I would be upset if people automatically assumed that i was cheating. My two cents on the subject and the last thing I want to do is **** any of you off. Thanks for hearing me out.
10-06-2010, 05:33 PM
#398
Rennlist Member
No, I do not think Poetl is cheating, but I've also driven close to him and seen his car on the dyno and although it's not cheating, strickly in my opinion what he does is not within the spirit of the rules either. Not to say he can't beat me in an even fight, but it's a bit over the top for Club Racing. Again, just my opinion.
Before I get slammed, especially by Gary, I've started a thread elsewhere to continue this discussion.
10-06-2010, 06:41 PM
#402
NASA Racer
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10-06-2010, 08:29 PM
#403
Drifting
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Late to this thread, but let me get this straight...someone at WG was accusing ERIC WONG of cheating?!?!?! Seriously?
I'll stake whatever reputation I may or may not have around here on the fact that Eric Wong was within the legal limits for his class and just outdrove everyone else. Hell, the guy was running an untuned junkyard motor and posted his dyno for the world to see. The exact same thing happens when the MA and SE guys head up to Watkins Glen for BMW CCA. The regulars get blown off the track and start accusing everyone from down south of cheating.
I'll stake whatever reputation I may or may not have around here on the fact that Eric Wong was within the legal limits for his class and just outdrove everyone else. Hell, the guy was running an untuned junkyard motor and posted his dyno for the world to see. The exact same thing happens when the MA and SE guys head up to Watkins Glen for BMW CCA. The regulars get blown off the track and start accusing everyone from down south of cheating.
