Notices
Racing & Drivers Education Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Team orders at McLaren

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 06-07-2010, 08:13 AM
  #1  
Sean F
NASA Racer
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Sean F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Westchester, NY
Posts: 4,778
Received 34 Likes on 20 Posts
Default Team orders at McLaren

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84202

Hamilton told Button would not pass him

By Jonathan Noble Monday, June 7th 2010, 08:35 GMT

Lewis Hamilton was told by his McLaren team during the Turkish Grand Prix that team-mate Jenson Button would not overtake him once they switched to fuel-saving mode - moments before the reigning world champion passed him.

In a fresh twist to what happened during an Istanbul event that had already seen Red Bull Racing duo Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel come together, the official race video edit on formula1.com has offered a new perspective into the battle between Hamilton and Button.

In the video extract, which comes shortly after the Webber/Vettel collision has moved the McLaren duo to the front of the field, the team comes on the radio and tells Hamilton: "Lewis, we need you to save fuel. Both cars are doing the same."

Hamilton responds and expresses his concerns that although he has backed off to save fuel, Button is gaining on him. "Jenson's closing in on me, you guys."

After the team acknowledges that message, Hamilton then asks: "If I back off, is Jenson going to pass me or not?"

McLaren's answer is: "No, Lewis. No."

It is unclear if Button was given, or understood, any message to not pass Hamilton - but the Hamilton radio conversation may explain why the 2008 champion was so keen to retake the lead as soon as he had lost it.
Old 06-07-2010, 08:27 AM
  #2  
paradisenb
Rennlist Member
 
paradisenb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In the pasture.
Posts: 4,202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I am shocked! Totally shocked. There are no team orders in FI, especially between McLaren and Hamilton. Say it aint so.
Old 06-07-2010, 10:20 AM
  #3  
multi21
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
multi21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,896
Received 3,429 Likes on 2,039 Posts
Default

Jents feeling a little frisky.... I like it... Couldn't happen to a better empire...
Old 06-07-2010, 10:21 AM
  #4  
MJSpeed
The Rebel
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
MJSpeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: South Florida
Posts: 5,390
Received 40 Likes on 26 Posts
Default

Since the teams can't come on the radio and give the blatant team orders of the Ferrari/Schumi era, they have now resorted to "save fuel", "go easy on your brakes", "save tires" and/or "lower your revs and save the engine" as a way to manipulate the results, hence team orders.

What happened @ Istanbul was a bit of a surprise. If McLaren gave the orders in the hopes that Button would pass Lewis and therefore favoring Jenson over Hamilton, I'm shocked! Only because I always thought, no matter what, Lewis is the "preferred" driver @ McLaren.

Then again Button has completely out-performed Lewis thus far this year.
Old 06-07-2010, 10:26 AM
  #5  
Circuit Motorsports
Addict
Rennlist Member

Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor

 
Circuit Motorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,183
Received 10 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by MJSpeed
Since the teams can't come on the radio and give the blatant team orders of the Ferrari/Schumi era, they hav now resorted to "save fuel", "going easy on your brakes", "save tires" and/or "lower your revs and save the engine" as a way to manipulate the results, hence team orders.

What happened @ Istanbul was a bit of a surprise. If McLaren gave the orders in the hopes that Button would pass Lewis and therefore favoring Jenson over Hamilton, I'm shocked! Only because I always thought, no matter what Lewis is the "preferred" driver.

The again Button has completely out-performed Lewis thus far this year.
You are keeping up with the 2010 and not 2009 season right? In races where there haven't been pit stop strategy due to rain affecting the race Hamilton has outpaced Button each time.
Old 06-07-2010, 10:33 AM
  #6  
MJSpeed
The Rebel
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
MJSpeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: South Florida
Posts: 5,390
Received 40 Likes on 26 Posts
Default

Well in 2010 up until last race;

1) Button had two wins and Lewis had zero

2) Button has led the world championship and Lewis hasn't

3) Button was ahead in points and still is

Pace is one thing, race performance (ie results) is another.
Old 06-07-2010, 10:38 AM
  #7  
MJSpeed
The Rebel
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
MJSpeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: South Florida
Posts: 5,390
Received 40 Likes on 26 Posts
Default

Or maybe McLaren felt they owed Button one because of the screw up in Monte Carlo? Only Martin Whitmarsh will know.
Old 06-07-2010, 10:59 AM
  #8  
bobt993
Rennlist Member
 
bobt993's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Philly Burbs
Posts: 3,077
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

When a driver finally runs out of fuel after ignoring the pit call to conserve fuel we will know if there is any substance to this.
Old 06-07-2010, 11:05 AM
  #9  
MJSpeed
The Rebel
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
MJSpeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: South Florida
Posts: 5,390
Received 40 Likes on 26 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bobt993
When a driver finally runs out of fuel after ignoring the pit call to conserve fuel we will know if there is any substance to this.
+1
Old 06-07-2010, 11:05 AM
  #10  
multi21
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
multi21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,896
Received 3,429 Likes on 2,039 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bobt993
When a driver finally runs out of fuel after ignoring the pit call to conserve fuel we will know if there is any substance to this.
I can't see McLaren favoring Hamilton over Button in any way, screw up in Monaco or not, but I agree with MJ, eventhough Hamilton is obviously quicker, at the end of the day, points are what matter and Button has them over Hamilton regardless of how he got them.

That last race in turkey was so interesting on so many levels. IF (and I know it's a big IF), the crash doesn't happen between Vettel and Webber, who would have blinked first as it relates to turning down the revs to save fuel to get to the end? Would someone have run out going flat out from start to finish? (I'm talking about the top 4 runners)
Old 06-07-2010, 11:06 AM
  #11  
Circuit Motorsports
Addict
Rennlist Member

Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor

 
Circuit Motorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,183
Received 10 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by MJSpeed
Well in 2010 up until last race;

1) Button had two wins and Lewis had zero

2) Button has led the world championship and Lewis hasn't

3) Button was ahead in points and still is

Pace is one thing, race performance (ie results) is another.
Okay, take away where the two DNF'd for mechanicals (Button overheat, Hamilton wheel), take away where pit strategy was a massive deciding factor (Button's wins) and we're left with a three races where straight up Hamilton beat Button.
Old 06-07-2010, 11:09 AM
  #12  
MJSpeed
The Rebel
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
MJSpeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: South Florida
Posts: 5,390
Received 40 Likes on 26 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Circuit Motorsports
Okay, take away where the two DNF'd for mechanicals (Button overheat, Hamilton wheel), take away where pit strategy was a massive deciding factor (Button's wins) and we're left with a three races where straight up Hamilton beat Button.
Why not just say, take away all results where Button beat Hamilton and only count the ones where Hamilton beat Button, ha you see Hamilton is better!

Problem is you can't do that. Pit strategies and the elements are all part of racing. The driver that best deals with them wins. This year favors those drivers that are easier on the equipment, less tire stops and no refueling. All the results count.
Old 06-07-2010, 11:12 AM
  #13  
Circuit Motorsports
Addict
Rennlist Member

Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor

 
Circuit Motorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,183
Received 10 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

Okay then if that's the way you are going to decide who's a better driver. How do those four points in WDC difference = completely outperformed as you said.
Old 06-07-2010, 11:21 AM
  #14  
BlueRiver86
Nordschleife Master
 
BlueRiver86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,905
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Obviously no team orders at Red Bull...

Old 06-07-2010, 11:56 AM
  #15  
multi21
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
multi21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,896
Received 3,429 Likes on 2,039 Posts
Default

Joe,

If you recall the wins by Button, one was because he was able to pit first and make his tires last until the very end. That is a direct result of the advantage he has over, dare I say it, over the rest of the field, because he IS a smooth driver.

He doesn't have the pace of Hamilton, but this year, because of the refueling ban, it plays into Button's strengths.


Quick Reply: Team orders at McLaren



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 11:28 PM.