OK......I ask myself a question......
06-03-2010, 09:24 PM
#16
I'm Still Jenny
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
This is why I think amateurs using data can be a detriment. Put Wolf in a car with data and it will give him a theoretical lap he can't hit, either. There are sacrifices you make in one turn that impact the speed in another segment which prevent you from going fast in other segments. You can't put together a theoretical lap in reality.
06-03-2010, 09:31 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Sorry Fred, but Charlie is 100% correct. If you take sector times from an 18 lap session at Limerock there can be some big variations that throw the curve off. I'll print out the data I was referring to when I get a chance, I can assure you my system works fine.. I think my car is capable of a 1:00 flat lap, maybe by next year I will be too.... 
06-03-2010, 09:57 PM
#20
Drifting
Eventhough I spend a lot of time every club race weekend analyzing data with a guy who knows data's ins and outs (he finds me time every weekend), I would love to know more about data no question about it. As far as sector times, when your looking at 4 sectors (vs 18) at the Glen, the compromise argument doesn't really apply (I agree that if you divide the track in 10 or 1,000 sectors, then it clearly applies). I will say however that a real pro's best lap will be a lot closer to his/her theroetical bast lap than an amateur's.
As far as gradation in pros, i agree with you wholeheartedly. That's why i qualified pro with the word "real" in my original post. The big time guys, those who get paid by Porsche for instance, are those i have in mind when discussing lap time potential.
As far as gradation in pros, i agree with you wholeheartedly. That's why i qualified pro with the word "real" in my original post. The big time guys, those who get paid by Porsche for instance, are those i have in mind when discussing lap time potential.
This is why I think amateurs using data can be a detriment. Put Wolf in a car with data and it will give him a theoretical lap he can't hit, either. There are sacrifices you make in one turn that impact the speed in another segment which prevent you from going fast in other segments. You can't put together a theoretical lap in reality. I think you discredit yourself and your talent. I don't think a pro is going to find seconds in your car. Top PCA racers, like those who can turn a high 2:09 in a F class car, are not that far removed from "pro" and may be better than many pros. Remember, there are large gradations in pro ranks, too...
Paolo, I stood in line behind Wolf at PCA Glen race registration a few years ago...
Paolo, I stood in line behind Wolf at PCA Glen race registration a few years ago...
Last edited by FredC; 06-04-2010 at 09:47 AM. Reason: ommited important detail.
06-03-2010, 09:58 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
I, for one, would love to see a dyno at PCA events and to have PCA stock rules adjusted to reflect actual dyno numbers (random dyno checks and required dyno reports with annual tech). We should be allowed to adjust ballast to ensure HP/weight parity within stock classes. By keeping other class rules in effect (brakes, suspension geometry, gearing, etc), costs would still be contained to some extent vs the arms race in NASA GTS series. It would also discourage well-hidden engine modifications that realistically PCA is just not able to police. However, the greatest result would be the end of all the finger-pointing and grumbling about cheating. Say you're running 2 seconds slower than your competitor, throw $80 on the table and demand that he get his butt on the dyno... question answered, no more bitching and everyone goes home knowing that they won or got beat fair and square.
06-03-2010, 10:00 PM
#22
Drifting
Sorry Fred, but Charlie is 100% correct. If you take sector times from an 18 lap session at Limerock there can be some big variations that throw the curve off. I'll print out the data I was referring to when I get a chance, I can assure you my system works fine.. I think my car is capable of a 1:00 flat lap, maybe by next year I will be too....
06-03-2010, 10:06 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Freddy......
You don't know this yet, but at Thunderbolt this year we are sharing the enduro........
In my car, and you will get the first half of it, I will do the second portion of it and we will compare results.........
If you beat the times of the top Boxster S, I will publicly apologize to the entire RL community.........
If you don't, you will be considered just another sucky 911 driver........ fair enough?
You don't know this yet, but at Thunderbolt this year we are sharing the enduro........
In my car, and you will get the first half of it, I will do the second portion of it and we will compare results.........
If you beat the times of the top Boxster S, I will publicly apologize to the entire RL community.........
If you don't, you will be considered just another sucky 911 driver........ fair enough?
06-03-2010, 10:29 PM
#24
Three Wheelin'
Sebring 2005.
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=119486
I was there in the drivers meeting when he walked up to get his "rookie" certificate. Everyone, including Wolf, was laughing hysterically as he held it over his head in triumph.
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=119486
I was there in the drivers meeting when he walked up to get his "rookie" certificate. Everyone, including Wolf, was laughing hysterically as he held it over his head in triumph.
06-03-2010, 10:57 PM
#25
Drifting
Wooooooooo. I didn't intend to sound cocky. I am in the amateur boat as i mentioned below. Nothing more. I just think that our cars have more capability than we like/want to think. You won't need to apologize... i am not driving your car and wouldn't beat DeMan in a Boxter S anyway.
Freddy......
You don't know this yet, but at Thunderbolt this year we are sharing the enduro........
In my car, and you will get the first half of it, I will do the second portion of it and we will compare results.........
If you beat the times of the top Boxster S, I will publicly apologize to the entire RL community.........
If you don't, you will be considered just another sucky 911 driver........ fair enough?
You don't know this yet, but at Thunderbolt this year we are sharing the enduro........
In my car, and you will get the first half of it, I will do the second portion of it and we will compare results.........
If you beat the times of the top Boxster S, I will publicly apologize to the entire RL community.........
If you don't, you will be considered just another sucky 911 driver........ fair enough?
06-03-2010, 11:06 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
OK, Freddy, forget about the Boxsters.......
Why don't you share an enduro with me anyway so I can really learn the potential of my car?
I mean it in sincere way, because I know the caliber of racer you are, so there is a lot for me to gain......
You have plenty of time to think about it and you don't have to answer me publically......
Why don't you share an enduro with me anyway so I can really learn the potential of my car?
I mean it in sincere way, because I know the caliber of racer you are, so there is a lot for me to gain......
You have plenty of time to think about it and you don't have to answer me publically......
06-03-2010, 11:15 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
06-03-2010, 11:16 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
This is why I think amateurs using data can be a detriment. Put Wolf in a car with data and it will give him a theoretical lap he can't hit, either. There are sacrifices you make in one turn that impact the speed in another segment which prevent you from going fast in other segments. You can't put together a theoretical lap in reality. I think you discredit yourself and your talent. I don't think a pro is going to find seconds in your car. Top PCA racers, like those who can turn a high 2:09 in a F class car, are not that far removed from "pro" and may be better than many pros. Remember, there are large gradations in pro ranks, too...
Paolo, I stood in line behind Wolf at PCA Glen race registration a few years ago...
Paolo, I stood in line behind Wolf at PCA Glen race registration a few years ago...
06-03-2010, 11:49 PM
#29
Drifting
OK, Freddy, forget about the Boxsters.......
Why don't you share an enduro with me anyway so I can really learn the potential of my car?
I mean it in sincere way, because I know the caliber of racer you are, so there is a lot for me to gain......
You have plenty of time to think about it and you don't have to answer me publically......
Why don't you share an enduro with me anyway so I can really learn the potential of my car?
I mean it in sincere way, because I know the caliber of racer you are, so there is a lot for me to gain......
You have plenty of time to think about it and you don't have to answer me publically......
06-03-2010, 11:54 PM
#30
Drifting
Sebring 2005.
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=119486
I was there in the drivers meeting when he walked up to get his "rookie" certificate. Everyone, including Wolf, was laughing hysterically as he held it over his head in triumph.
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=119486
I was there in the drivers meeting when he walked up to get his "rookie" certificate. Everyone, including Wolf, was laughing hysterically as he held it over his head in triumph.