Rob S

Has anyone ever attempted to put a 996 Cup Car on the street? I'm wondering if, under any creative circumstances, one can get a title for the car and get a license plate on it.

I realize that the practicality of driving such a car on the street is limited (it's low, loud, doesn't have side windows, etc), but it's also got a lot of features that make it streetable (lights and power steering, for instance). But it would make a great track car, and it might be fun to have one that could be driven to the track, on DOT tires, if the track wasn't too far away.

Note, I'm not talking about making a GT3 street car into a Cup Car (which can be done), though I'd be interested in any efforts like that as well. I'd really like to know if anyone has taken a real Cup Car and gotten it licensed anywhere in the US.

ltc

AFAIK, the only road going (legal VIN) Cup car is the 964 US Cup.
I know in my state, my 964 Euro Cup isn't a possibility (based on VIN)...unless I wait 25 years for antique status.

Odd, they won't let a Cup car on the street, but they will allow antique Model T's...

earlyapex

Contact Steve Weiner. He knows of a 996 GT3 that was converted to full Cup car specifications and retained continued to be registered for the street.

http://rennsportsystems.com/

Rob S

Thanks, I'm actually aware of that car. Do you know if anyone has ever gone the other way, and street legalized an otherwise untitled 996 Cup Car?

Rob

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Rob,

Can't be done.

Cup cars are not licensable in any state although a Dealer plate would allow one to drive it on the street if you decide to go to the trouble to get one.

MUSSBERGER

You could always find a donor tub for the VINs.

analogmike

You would also have to change the steering gear out as they don't have enough range to drive on the street. You would be backing up a lot, parking lots would be painful. Also a stock type clutch would be a good downgrade or you'll stall it in slow traffic.

Phokaioglaukos

Move to the UK. Any car 10 or more years old can be registered for the street. A fellow offered to sell me a 2000 cup car that could be driven on the street. Weird.

jrgordonsenior

I remember a pic from some guy up in Seattle I think who threw a dealer plate on his cup and drove it around. Must have been 4-5 years ago. It would be brutal on the street and pretty much undriveable.....

bobt993

Is the purpose so you could finance a Cup car? If so, I would think it would be a bad idea as the cost of running it exceeds buying it. I cannot think of any other reason to drive one on the street.

Rob S

Thanks folks,

Steve, now that *is* creative. Of course, getting that dealer plate would be a big deal. And I'm not sure what the local constabulary would say if they saw you driving near PIR, with numbers on the doors, rubber boogers on the hood and sweaty helmet hanging from the hook inside the car. "Just taking it for a test drive, sir, and I got lost on this endless loop with a bunch of crazies going 140 mph..."

Seriously, I'm sure that a Cup Car, as configured, would not be legal anywhere as is. But I do wonder whether there might be some routine, perhaps unique to certain states, where the process of applying for a title might be (more)possible for a race car. Cup Cars are relatively unique because they're so close to "street legal" as delivered, at least as far as basic equipment is concerned. The problem is they haven't been proven to meet federal safety standards, so they'd never get approved en masse like their street-titled brethren. But there are execeptions, arent' there? I know that "kit cars" or "partially assembled" vehicles have special exemptions from the FMVSS, but maybe only for "manufacturers." I wonder if the drivetrain could be separated from the car, the chassis re-classified somehow, then the components re-united later. A few years ago there was a one-time exemption for importing a car that wasn't otherwise US legal. I'm not sure that's in effect anymore, but there were a number of street-marginal cars that came over at that time.

So the concept of titling a marginally street legal car has been successfully executed many times in the past, perhaps in various ways. Why not a Cup Car?

Practical? That's another whole thread...

Yes, that would be the logical answer. And it would be entirely legal, as long as the donor tub was legitimately titled. But then it becomes a question of whether you've converted a Cup Car to a GT3, or a GT3 to a Cup Car! And it would likely be a very expensive and labor intensive process.


No, this wouldn't be for financing!

I knew this would come up: "Why the hell would anyone want to do this?"

To all those who question the practicality of driving such a car on the street: there's no question that there's nothing practical or logical about it. It's only for the sport of being able to drive to the track, do some lapping, and drive home again. For me, the hassle of a trailer and tow vehicle is enough to stop me from having a pure track vehicle. What I drive right now would be considered impractical and marginally streetable, so I'm used to the concept.

Though even a Cup Car on the street would have to be compromised slightly to get to/from the track on its own (tires, ride height, side windows, maybe clutch, muffler, steering gear), it would be still retain more purity than most street cars converted for the track. And there are lots of older Cup Cars with significant life left in some of them that have come way down in price. We'll be seeing them at DE days more and more, I predict.

I do have this question, though, for the Cup Car experts: what is the fundamental difference between the race and street engines that drives the 100hour recommendation before rebuild on the race engine? I know of some mechanical differences between the Cup engine and a street GT3 engine, and in fact, the street engine is somewhat more complex. Of course, the Cup engine is expected to spend the majority of its life in harsher racing duty. But there's no such rebuild requirement for a street GT3 engine. And many of them are run nearly as hard, but for thousands of hours. Is there something in the bottom or top end of a Cup engine that's more fragile?

I asked this of a PMNA mechanic who was doing a demo rebuild of Cup engines at the Monterey historics this past August, and even he said he didn't know the answer to this question...

Rob

Wreck Me Otter

Why destroy a good track car by driving it on crappy streets? I can tell you that driving a car with only tires being rubber between the road and your **** is not a pleasant ride...

Edward

Hey Kim,

Good seeing you here ...havent "read you around" in a while. I still have a pic of your YZonker any my 993 at Laguna Seca from mannnny moons ago. Hope to see there again!


Edward

Mahler9th

I think you have a potential answer in the dealer plates...

We have several guys that drive their 911 Spec class cars to races... relying on friends/comrades to have tools and equipment at the event if they need it.

I occasionally drive my race car on the street (may do so today). It is a 1975 911... about 1950 pounds with a 3.8L engine on race gas and full cage. I do not go very far or very often.

When I bought it up in Truckee, I drove it home down I-80-- about 210 miles. Had to stop half way and refill the fuel cell. It got a lot of attention on the interstate and it was a loud and chilly November ride. Bumpy too.

Shortly thereafter, I drove it to an event at Thunderhill, about 175 miles from where I live. Wife followed in a car packed with all of our track stuff. Loud and not very pleasant ride for me. I also drove it from my house over to Bruce Anderson's when he lived in the area-- about 20 miles... and then on to work and back home. A total of about 60 miles on a work day. Loud and not very pleasant. Boss got a kick out of it though (he had a 996).

I don't like the driver's vulnerability of such a car with a bare head and a cage in proximity. Also for track events, I cannot see carrying enough stuff/gear/tools in any stripped down 911 family car to feel comfortable. Of course if you have friends there they can have all of the support stuff.

Tow vehicle/trailer is an expense and "hassle" to some... it is a trade off. In my case, a lightweight trailer (enclosed Trailex) was an enabler... so I can make the whole thing work.

NaroEscape

title it in Alabama. I think you can title a Radio Flyer wagon in Alabama... Theres a guy there that got a 996 GT3 RS (the non-street legal ones from Europe) titled and insured in Alabama. They don't care from what I've seen - they'll take anyones money.