ew928

The art is to find a nice patch of land with lots of hard-of-hearing neighbors.


Is the No-Sunday racing rule at Lime Rock due to religious edicts from the past or some strange local regulations about sundays.
(Blue rules? about having stores closed on sunday for example)

blake

Larry Miller intended to build MMP on a budget of $8M, and the cost of land was relately cheap. 4 years later, he has spent over $80M, I asked his son what happened, and he told me that it was all about trying to add "scale" the establishment to make it profitable like some of the top race tracks. To run the money-generating races, a certain infrastructure is required. As of today, they host ALMS, Rolex GT, AMA Superbike and NASCAR West events... However, they are still not profitable.

My $0.02,
-B

GT3CAR

This may seem like a weird comparison to some of you....

A USGA spec golf course cost $6 to $12M from forested land to grown in grass. This includes elevation changes and beautiful grounds. I imagine a 2.5 to 3 mile road course including clearing, road base, safety materials, drainage, run off, gravel pits, clubhouse, pits, asphalt would be about $10 to $15 million because of the increased cost of the road base and asphalt. Except for the actual road base the prep, earth work and finishing would be very similar to a golf course construction project and I have been on many of those....

my 2 cents.

Tom W

Reno-Fernley was recently built by a guy with a bulldozer carving out what he thought would be a good track. There might be info to be found on the web regarding what he's paid so far.

brucegre

While we're trying to prove VR wrong, I had this tattooed on my *** when we started building Calabogie. I'm in it for the passion and being the first one to do this in Canada in 25 years, there are much easier ways to make money.

You can stand up a race track with no infrastructure for $10-15 if the land is reasonable, so if you win the lottery and want a place to play, have at 'er. You need at least 300-400 acres, so how much an acre is usable land close to NYC?

arrivederci

Not sure how accurate the reported numbers are, but see High Plains Raceway for a low budget example.

http://www.highplainsraceway.com/

It is in operation now. I haven't been to it yet, but they got to a 'usable facility' at $3.5M.

F350Lawman

Unfortunately, I think you could wait a few years and buy Monticello for less than the cost to build anything, at least around NY metro. I find it hard to believe they are going to be close to getting their money back. Nice track though.

Plavan

It's fighting the tree huggers and liberals that costs so much money trying to build a race track- this track has been trying for 8 years. Stupid lawsuits, enviormental impact reports after more surveys and reports- now they are out of money.
http://www.rmpracing.com/

Weston

Yup, that's what I was going to point to. It's actually a pretty nice track... just no real facilities beyond that yet (they have some mobile buildings), and no running water in the foreseeable future, but they do have electricity. They saved money by getting used concrete wall segments from the Denver Grand Prix (you can still see names like Paul Tracy and Sebastian Bourdais on the backs of them), having volunteers build and place tire barriers, and bringing in some used mobile buildings.

95m3racer

+1. I don't think the market can support what they want to have...temporary building is still the clubhouse, and actual members who are attending member days is low (more than lime rock club low, but that club is an epic failure), and they don't have endless money...its an expensive place to run.

Problem is no one is building RACING tracks, and thats where the money is. Professional race weekends can bring in some pretty big numbers.

There are too many events in areas like the northeast now, and its causing a lot of problems...with dozens of track day clubs, there are too many options, and clubs will start disappearing as track day enthusiasts have more options, there won't be enough people to support the hundreds of events available.

Monticello was designed not for racing, but for "education" and "fun." It can not hold any professional race, and it was not intended to, so no big deal...but it limits the profits to be made.

NJMP seems to be the best operation lately, and once they finish the other phases of the complex, I think it'll be the premiere facility in the US, hands down. Club is run well, big member count, track has made big progress, and its in a great location.

If we're talking building a race track in some remote country where there are no lows, easy access to good pavement materials and cheap labor...that's about all the costs involved

Hell, look what happened to bridgehampton...funny thing is I just drove on some of the track that remains and they repaved it! A couple earth movers and some paving and the track can be almost as good as new. Money talks and a car guy turned it into a golf course.

My .02

P.S. Old video of a great racetrack - I wish i comes back, but it seems like a lost cause

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p3DA...eature=related

ew928

So a golf course nets more dollars.
Same patch of land. No sound issues.
Seen as a "+" to local homeowners' values.
Multiple users using the same acreage at the same time.
Larger pool of users. (set of normal golf clubs costs less than low end DE/race cars)

Interesting.

BobbyC

Depends on what kind of track and support facilities. My guess, anywhere from $10MM - $100MM. Just like golf, are we talking a local "muni" or a "Pine Valley"?

GT3CAR

Yep, last I knew which was many years back a well run course needed 40,000 rounds a year for cash flow and upkeep. Of course that depends on what kind of cost structure you have and the rates for the rounds but 40K was a good round number when I kept up with that kind information. That is a much larger pool of customers!
Of course, I am talking about a public or private/public course here. Private courses have a much different revenue structure.

banshee1

+1
Reliable sources have current outlay >$65MM and a hold on new construction.
Nice facility but a club track, not a race track. Good luck to them, they seem like pretty nice guys.

Racerrob

Anyone know the number for Bluegrass? I know they have pavement down, but are they open yet? Also, how is Palm Beach International doing, they had some bad press for a while?