Torque or HP on the road course????? Which is better?
02-05-2009, 05:09 PM
#121
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02-05-2009, 05:10 PM
#122
02-05-2009, 05:10 PM
#123
Rennlist Member
Answer the previous posters question.
we are not agreeing to disagree.
If off a turn, both identical cars with identical drivers, tires, and identical engine position have 300rwhp, one has 400ft-lbs of engine torque and the other has 250ftlbs of torque Let me say it again, off this particular turn, both cars are at the same HP level. they might accelerate down the straight to a max 400rwhp.
who has more torque off the turn VR?????
Answer, they both would have exactly the same rear wheel torque as measured through the gear box and at the CV joints.
If you doubt this in ANY way, show me some math that proves this wrong.
Trust me, you wont be able to.
Want me to go through the math with you ???????
engine torque A x gear ratio for same speed = rear wheel torque at CV joints
engien torque B x gear ratio for same speed= rear wheel torque at CV joints
Its REAL simple math at this point. for the same HP , if the torque is lower, the rpms will be higher by the same percentage. if the rpms are higher by the same percentage, the gear ratio will be greater by the same percentage multipliying the torque in the end to be equal! equal equal equal.
why is this so hard for you to grasp?
Mk
we are not agreeing to disagree.
If off a turn, both identical cars with identical drivers, tires, and identical engine position have 300rwhp, one has 400ft-lbs of engine torque and the other has 250ftlbs of torque Let me say it again, off this particular turn, both cars are at the same HP level. they might accelerate down the straight to a max 400rwhp.
who has more torque off the turn VR?????
Answer, they both would have exactly the same rear wheel torque as measured through the gear box and at the CV joints.
If you doubt this in ANY way, show me some math that proves this wrong.
Trust me, you wont be able to.
Want me to go through the math with you ???????
engine torque A x gear ratio for same speed = rear wheel torque at CV joints
engien torque B x gear ratio for same speed= rear wheel torque at CV joints
Its REAL simple math at this point. for the same HP , if the torque is lower, the rpms will be higher by the same percentage. if the rpms are higher by the same percentage, the gear ratio will be greater by the same percentage multipliying the torque in the end to be equal! equal equal equal.
why is this so hard for you to grasp?
Mk
The assumption here is that gearing is appropriate for each powertrain. 
Mark, the exact opposite is true here, especially on tracks like MSR Cresson. So again, we're going to have to agree to disagree. And I assure you, the vehicle producing more torque when I get on the gas in a corner WILL get out of the corner faster, all other things being equal. If you wish to keep contradicting that, go ahead.
Mark, the exact opposite is true here, especially on tracks like MSR Cresson. So again, we're going to have to agree to disagree. And I assure you, the vehicle producing more torque when I get on the gas in a corner WILL get out of the corner faster, all other things being equal. If you wish to keep contradicting that, go ahead.
02-05-2009, 05:11 PM
#124
Rennlist Member
Answer the previous posters question.
we are not agreeing to disagree.
If off a turn, both identical cars with identical drivers, tires, and identical engine position have 300rwhp, one has 400ft-lbs of engine torque and the other has 250ftlbs of torque Let me say it again, off this particular turn, both cars are at the same HP level. they might accelerate down the straight to a max 400rwhp.
who has more torque off the turn VR?????
Answer, they both would have exactly the same rear wheel torque as measured through the gear box and at the CV joints.
If you doubt this in ANY way, show me some math that proves this wrong.
Trust me, you wont be able to.
Want me to go through the math with you ???????
engine torque A x gear ratio for same speed = rear wheel torque at CV joints
engien torque B x gear ratio for same speed= rear wheel torque at CV joints
Its REAL simple math at this point. for the same HP , if the torque is lower, the rpms will be higher by the same percentage. if the rpms are higher by the same percentage, the gear ratio will be greater by the same percentage multipliying the torque in the end to be equal! equal equal equal.
why is this so hard for you to grasp?
Mk
we are not agreeing to disagree.
If off a turn, both identical cars with identical drivers, tires, and identical engine position have 300rwhp, one has 400ft-lbs of engine torque and the other has 250ftlbs of torque Let me say it again, off this particular turn, both cars are at the same HP level. they might accelerate down the straight to a max 400rwhp.
who has more torque off the turn VR?????
Answer, they both would have exactly the same rear wheel torque as measured through the gear box and at the CV joints.
If you doubt this in ANY way, show me some math that proves this wrong.
Trust me, you wont be able to.
Want me to go through the math with you ???????
engine torque A x gear ratio for same speed = rear wheel torque at CV joints
engien torque B x gear ratio for same speed= rear wheel torque at CV joints
Its REAL simple math at this point. for the same HP , if the torque is lower, the rpms will be higher by the same percentage. if the rpms are higher by the same percentage, the gear ratio will be greater by the same percentage multipliying the torque in the end to be equal! equal equal equal.
why is this so hard for you to grasp?
Mk
The assumption here is that gearing is appropriate for each powertrain.
Mark, the exact opposite is true here, especially on tracks like MSR Cresson. So again, we're going to have to agree to disagree. And I assure you, the vehicle producing more torque when I get on the gas in a corner WILL get out of the corner faster, all other things being equal. If you wish to keep contradicting that, go ahead.
Mark, the exact opposite is true here, especially on tracks like MSR Cresson. So again, we're going to have to agree to disagree. And I assure you, the vehicle producing more torque when I get on the gas in a corner WILL get out of the corner faster, all other things being equal. If you wish to keep contradicting that, go ahead.
02-05-2009, 05:12 PM
#125
Rennlist Member
Mark, you are (a) repeating yourself, and (b) taking this a bit personally. relax.
02-05-2009, 05:14 PM
#126
Rennlist Member
02-05-2009, 05:17 PM
#127
Rennlist Member
Answer the question!
Im not taking things personally, you are making incorrect statements with no basis and posting them as truths. if you answer this question of the previous post, i think he might enlighten you as I have not been able to do.
Remember one thing
acceleration= power/(mass x velocity) This is Law. not something I made up!
mk
Im not taking things personally, you are making incorrect statements with no basis and posting them as truths. if you answer this question of the previous post, i think he might enlighten you as I have not been able to do.
Remember one thing
acceleration= power/(mass x velocity) This is Law. not something I made up!
mk
02-05-2009, 05:17 PM
#128
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Talk torque, buy horse power !
02-05-2009, 05:18 PM
#129
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Opps Looks like I got in the middle of something. Mediation anyone ?
02-05-2009, 05:20 PM
#130
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02-05-2009, 05:20 PM
#131
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As a side note-I see no point in comparing an S2000 vs an e36(or anything to anything else for that matter). They're totally different cars with too many variables to say X is faster because of its motor.
02-05-2009, 05:20 PM
#132
Rennlist Member
thats the case for all examples we are discussing. all gear boxes would have redlines at the same speed and appropriate gearing to do this. we can get tricky later when we start looking at close ratio gear boxes and the reasons for them.
carrry on!
mk
carrry on!
mk
02-05-2009, 05:24 PM
#133
Rennlist Member
I think you missed the point, higher torque does not mean it's faster. Here's an overly simplistic sample. 2 identical cars, both with 400hp engines. Both have a perfectly linear hp 'curve'(actually its not a curve) with the max hp being made at its redline. One redlines at 4500rpm and makes 500 ft lbs of torque, the other redlines at 9000rpm and makes 250 ft lbs of torque. Now Dave, which one is faster?
As a side note-I see no point in comparing an S2000 vs an e36(or anything to anything else for that matter). They're totally different cars with too many variables to say X is faster because of its motor.
As a side note-I see no point in comparing an S2000 vs an e36(or anything to anything else for that matter). They're totally different cars with too many variables to say X is faster because of its motor.
I never said it was faster. I said it gets out of corners better, which is what you want on a road course, especially a technical one.
As for your example, who knows? Define "faster", Greg.
02-05-2009, 05:27 PM
#134
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Actually it doesn't, you need no more information than he's given. If you don't understand this then you probably shouldn't be posting in this thread.
02-05-2009, 05:29 PM
#135
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PS-I don't mean to sound shrill, I was just making it clear for you to answer it, not mark, etc...
