My cage has more padding than my stock A and B pillars did before the installation (a thin sheet of vinyl will do far less to cushion my head than the sfi high density cage padding). By lowering my seat and mounting it 2" closer to the tranny tunnel, my head position is now far further from my cage than it was from the roof and A/B pillars in the stock configuration. I'm not a safety expert, but I don't really see why there seams to be such passionate feelings about how reckless it would be to drive a car with a cage on the street.

I should clarify that while a bolt in half cage is of course better than nothing, just get a true cage if you are concerned about a rollover.

How much do you guys pay for a good custom cage? We get quoted stupid amounts out here. $7-$10k!
I do think I will have to relent however as I agree that nobody should have to put up with me in a wheelchair.

quotes vary from $2000 US to $7000 US depending on type of cage, materials, builder, prep work, etc. I paid $2500 US for my initial cage, but since have added extra bracing and tubing that would have put the cost at more like $3500

as mentioned I would put in a full cage from the start

Ha!

You can argue this six ways from Sunday, and it is way more complex a topic than can be done justice to on this forum. It's been discussed before. Suffice it to say that - whether the stock vehicle is "safe" or not (and they HAVE been tested) - adding tubing to a street car is not necessarily a good idea, and it would be a miracle if it did anything but lessen your chances if you clonk it. This coming from someone who has inspected and investigated more wrecks than everyone here combined, times 10. You can take my word for it... or not.

You can wear your helmet on the street. You might expect to get pulled over, though. If you wear your harnesses, you might get a ticket. Most are not D.O.T. certified, if you didn't know.

In the end, it boils down to managing your risk. If you think tubing is your savior, then have a go. I'll take your money and build you a great cage. Won't even try very hard to talk you out of it. If you don't want to take the risks that adding tubing to a street car offers, then you better drive within a reasonable limit with what safety equipment - and ability - you do have.

You should hold the image of that wheelchair in the deep recesses of your mind no matter what you decide, just to keep it real.

7-10k Aus $ is a good price! Every race car i've had built has been upwards of 5k US for the bare minimum!

$7-10K USD.....damm thats steep!!!! I was quoted $2000 for a custom 8 point cage out of 1.75x.120 DOM for my race 928 that is under construction....right now only the back half is done....but the rest should be done in a month or so

SFI padding is pretty hard if you don't have a helmet on!

Do it, don't do it, do it, don't do it????

That's Aussie dollars but it's all relative. It costs a lot. I tend to believe that uncovered steel sills in the car present a big enough potential issue in a crash on the road (or track). I do wonder if a cage is correctly padded how that would not be more forgiving than the standard cabin internals. Of course you do bring the cage closer to the head and perhaps that increases your chance of impact?

Maybe but that is not necessarily unsafe. Think about a full containment head halo seat. If those where SFI padded bars instead and you hit those you don't have the same kinetic energy buildup if you hit the same padded bars it they were 8 inches away. Think about what happens to a baseball when you hit it on the sweet spot vs. a screw up closer to the handle.

I'm a long way from an expert, but...

I believe a cage makes a street car much safer no matter where it's being driven or what equipment the driver is wearing. In all the years I've seen these discussions take place, I've seen ample amounts of evidence of rollovers/incursions/etc where the cage provided a benefit. I've never seen anyone with actual evidence (or better, an actual study) that shows any significant number of drivers hurting their head on a cage. In fact, I've never heard anecdotal evidence of it happening even once.

That isn't to say a person's head wouldn't hit an SFI-padded cage in a collision, but -- as ninjabones points out -- it's not like the A- and B-pillars are made of fluffy cotton. Just as a crashing car doesn't know whether it's on a track or a street, a piece of steel doesn't know if it's part of a cage or a chassis when it slams into your head. And at least you can pad a cage.

Do you really think Porsche (and other companies) would include cages in street cars if it made those cars significantly less safe in street driving? The big, unpadded roll bar was included on my 1983 CJ7 was part of a safety package conceived after repeated lawsuits forced AMC to completely re-engineer the patently-dangerous CJ5.

And for those of you who pretend that your head isn't going to move far enough to hit the rolled roof edge, A-pillar or B-pillar, I'd suggest you talk to an experienced EMT about how far the body and head travel in a collision. I always tell people to imagine a sphere that extends 24 inches out from your head in all directions. Everything in that sphere is fair game in what most of us would consider a low-speed impact.

Right On, FBB!
--------------------------------
Well...

To try and simplify it greatly, it is about deformability, and surface shapes.

Deformability - Take a sledge hammer, smash it into a stock roof pillar, and then a cage hoop. Which one deforms more? Simple. Whether replacing the hammer with your head offers a survivable impact in the case of the stock pillar is highy debatable, but the theory behind it is sound. Cages are hard, even with the proper padding. I have seen stock roof structures deformed from human impact. I really don't have to guess in the case of tubing.

Surface shape - To the extent that any stock roof structure represents a smooth, more uniform shape, it is safer than a tube. If your head gets squunched into a tube, you would hope to do so on-center. Any impact off center enters offset loads into the body, which is harder to survive. Also, the small surface area of a tube offers a far higher focal point of energy than a flatter surface.

As to how far a body travels, I'll tell you. On average, your hips will move 4-8" and your shoulders 12-18" in a "normal" impact of 40g or so. Your head will move farther still. THAT IS WITH A RACING HARNESS! In anything but a straight forward impact, your (unrestrained) head will almost certainly hit something. With a 3-point belt, you would be stunned to see the range of motion. Significant portions of your body will be biffing something in this case. Air bag, please!

This may be all based on conjecture and surmize, but the ideas behind why tubing is not necessairly safe are sound theories, and what car makers have or continue to do has nothing to do with that. Even if they are aware of the possible eventualities (and that is a HUGE if, depending on the era), they are playing the odds just like we are.

I will not tell anyone not to put tubing in a car, I will simply make them aware of the possibilities. It is down to everyone to make their own assessment of their own risk. Knowing the possibilities is an important part of making an informed judgement.

Well I appreciate your thoughts on this subject guys although I'm no clearer as what to do? It seems like the age old line in the sand and having to crossover that line to commit to making a racecar. Pity about the funds :(
What about wearing a bicycle helmet when driving? Apart from looking like a dickhead, would it offer any assistance in an accident?