z12358

I've seen a few similar discussions at RL and elsewhere, and I'm sure I've missed plenty more, but here it goes specifically for my situation.

Over the two years since I bought my Box S, I've driven 14k miles:
75% country roads, weekends, top down
15% track, top up, 7-10 track days per season
10% highway, top up

It is likely that the above distribution will remain the same for the forseeable future. I truly enjoy my weekend early morning drives (1-2hrs) in the country with the top down, which was my only reason for getting the car (I didn't know about PCA and DE when I bought it). I also enjoy the car at the track VERY much (Limerock, Watkins Glen, NJMP Lightning, so far).

The Box S is bone stock (18" OEM wheels, stock Potenza 050 tires, sport steering wheel, no PASM). I'm thinking, if I was to custom order a car to be built by Porsche for the above distribution of use and quality of roads, tracks, and highways, my Box S would be it.

As to my driving level at the track, I've driven 9 solo track days. I'm likely to get bumped into White at my home region, but have already done a few events in White run groups with other regions. Seems that I'm plenty fast for White as the "me passing / being passed" ratio is pretty stable around 10, and I'm mostly passed by cars with much superior HP/lb ratios.

And therein lies the problem. Track friends and instructors that I ocassionally invite for a session, all tell me that I'm reaching a level of driving that my stock Box S cannot handle anymore, as I'm "driving its wheels off" with my speed. I too feel that I'm driving the car very close to its limits, but never felt like I have trouble doing it in a controlled way. More importantly, they stress safety, and the need for seats, harness, HANS, and a roll cage, at my increased speeds.

I don't have ambitions to perhaps race in the future, and I would be happy if I stayed in White for the next 3-4 years.

So, what shall it be:
1. Get seats, harnesses, HANS, and track wheels + tires for my Box, or
2. Replace it with a 996 GT3 that's still not too track-prepped as to make my 75% country road drives miserable?

Most importantly, will I be safe enough with #1 (roll bars, but no roll cage), even though it will only be for 7-10 track days per season?

And finally, as a driver improves with seat-time, does that neccessarily mean constantly "outgrowing" a current car and a need for an upgrade, or is it possible to advance (and enjoy it) without changing cars?

Thanks much in advance!

VERBOTN

z12358:

You will likely have lots of input on this but from a driver that has taken a bone stock boxster-s to something very different it is far cheaper to buy a 996gt3 add euro sport seats, harnesses and you are good to go for the track. However that does not address your need for top down driving. If possible perhaps two cars if not I would evaluate how much track time you will be doing. IMO if you are only doing 7-10 days I would stay with the boxster and enjoy your AM drives. My problem was I realy liked track time and quickly went over-center.

The HP issue will be never ending as each year someone is bigger, badder, faster so for me that is a game I cannot keep up with. I do get satisfaction from passing and hanging with higher HP cars until the straights then catch them up again in the twisties.

I drove my car with only the hoops for a year and when I became serious I added a bolt-in cage and just recently pulled the bolt-in and installed a complete welded cage (think cup car and you are close).
At a minimum I would add the proper seats with belt ports and harnesses and HANS. The benefit of the boxster is that you can put the top back and change seats (if needed) in less than 10-min (4 bolts).

What makes this an interesting post to me is the number of people that are doing the opposite of what you mentioned i.e. transitioning from 996 to boxsters (spec boxster racing). I think the ultimate club weapon would be the reptile but it is still to $$, however in a few years when the dollars come down I think lots of people will be tracking them.

Cheers.

fjpdds

I went thru a similar dilemma and choices. I will say this past weekend at Road Atlanta, having the GT3 with the half Roll cage, 6 point harness and Hans was certainly reassuring. I solved the problem by going for the GT3 and a base Boxster. My wife now joins me driving the Boxster in the occasional DE. We have taken the Boxster on road trips including some AutoX's & DE's at "smaller" tracks, that is fun. Both cars, as you described are great fun in there own way. I really prefer the Boxster around town, but not at the track.
Good luck

Gary R.

Do you have to only have one car? It sure sounds like you could buy a dedicated track car (and possibly an open trailer with tow vehicle) for what you would need to spend to move to a GT3. There are always older 911's for sale, along with Boxsters and 944's, which would give you your weekend cruiser and a track basher.. to say nothing of not risking much when you are out there..

Scootin159

I'd second this path as well... get a hardcore track car ($20k will get you a LOT if you look in the right places - and aren't shopping based on comfort or appearances), and keep the boxster for around town driving.

Your two goals are extreme opposites on the same scale (comfort <-> performance). You can have both, but only as a compromise. Any move towards one end (performance) will make a notable change in the other end (comfort). I feel that by the time you get your boxster to where you want the performance, it won't be as fun on the weekend drives (i.e. GT3). It's often cheaper & easier to just buy one from each end of the spectrum.

Jay Gratton

You are not at the limit of your car. I can promise you that much as not many people car do that even instructors. I would improve the 987 adn go from there. I think jumping to a GT3 in white would be a mistake.

gbaker

Boxster. You're spending 85% of your time on the street.

Brian P

First off, I have no doubt that you are driving fast as the boxster is an easy car to learn in. I would be stunned if you are really approaching the limits within 9 solo days. Without knowing lap times, it's difficult to say how far off you are. FWIW, Dr. Jupeman was able to run my 2001 Boxster S at a 2:24 at the Glen when it was in stock form and on street tires. I figure that he has probably gotten about 2 seconds better since then and the 987 is probably 2 seconds better than the 986, so a sub-2:20 on street tires would be what I would consider "nearing the limits".

With that being said, I would go with most of option #1 no matter what car you decide to drive. "Get seats, harnesses, HANS, and track wheels + tires". I would consider seats, harnesses, and HANS to be a "must have" set of items and especially so if you think you are nearing the limits. Track wheels + tires are nice, but not a must have.

M758

Are you no longer having fun in the Boxster? DE can be used for two purposes

1) Drive and learn to get faster. Always push the limits and seek more speed as you gain skill. You can do this rapidly or more gradually.

If this your goal you should make a move to increase safery and the open top car may be an issue.


2) Just have fun at the track. In DE is perfectly fine to simple "plateau" and solid level just not go faster. You don't always need to to "as fast as you dare" in DE. Maybe you will be happy with just going the same speed, but with more margin as your skills develop. Here the name of the game is fun and not to take any risks. You infact may never develop really great track skills, but I think its fine to not have that a goal.

If that is your idea of good time keep the boxster S.


Seems to me that you take to the track in mode. Your primary purpose is fun backroad car. You occasionaly take the car to the track. That is ok. Just leave more margin and resists the pressure to drive hard all the time. Just becuase you could take a turn at 80 mph does not mean you must and going only 75 does not mean you lack the skill or bravery to do it.

Now you should still be able to add race seats, harness and HANS to the boxster S as is. You may even like the seats on the back roads, but could even swap seats for the occasional DE event.

Bottomline... don't get rid of the boxster just because a few track guys want you too.

blake

I can personally attest that the question is not *if* but *when* will you put your higher hp DE car into the wall. Sure, we can all drive at a plateau - but pushing past that comfort zone will cause mistakes - and I'd argue that is part of the learning experience.

If you choose to buy a 996 GT3, you will certainly not regret it on the track. However, your cost of a DE will be high as consumables - specifically tires - are very expensive and last only 4-5 days with a good alignemnt (you heat cycle them out). I'd also recommend paying for track insurance. For your 7-10 DE days per year, allocate $10K-$12K for the annual track budget. And this does not include the fun mods either...

Good luck!

-Blake

Leigh2

I had a similar dilemma trying to decide the right balance between track and street. After several iterations I've settled on a 6GT3 with roll bar, seats, harnesses (that I remove between events), extra track wheels, slightly noisier exhaust, and a track alignment. The suspension is still stock and although a bit rough on the street it is acceptable. I still enjoy the Sunday morning drives and the wail of the GT3 engine easily substitutes for the top down experience IMO. I have been an instructor for 20+ years and raced very competitively during that period and I find the 6GT3 to be a completely involving car that challenges my driving skills every time I take it to an event. I'm reluctant for obvious reasons to drive it at 100% but 97% is pretty darn quick and tons of fun with a margin for error.

earlyapex

I was in your shoes 4 years ago. You have not outgrown your Boxster by any measure of driving. Don't fool yourself. You also spend the majority of your time on the street and enjoy the top down driving experience. You will lose this in any coupe so think twice. You also plan to drive relatively few track days per year. With this in mind, I would not buy a 996 GT3 to replace your Boxster unless of course you also love the way it drives on the street compared to your Boxster. Having driven both cars, I think the Boxster in much more fun to drive top down on a winding road at near legal speeds. The GT3 is boring unless you are pushing it.

You do not need a cage with what you intend to do for the next few years. A BK roll bar extension, good set of seats and harness will go a long way. With that said, don't fool yourself that DE's are safer than racing and thus a lower level of safety equipment is fine. You will find that people are going very quickly during DE's. On our local tracks, some of the lap times would make the very competitive in their respective SCCA or PRC race class. The big difference is that a race car is usually equipped with better safety gear. Of the 5 track deaths that have occurred in Northern California over the past 4 years, only one was due to car to car contact. The rest were due to driver error and two medical events. Invest on good safety gear and keep in mind that we all balance the risks before going out on the road or track.

I had a 996, which I used for 6 track days, finding the speeds insane. Nothing like braking from 130 mph to hit the first turn while trying to stay in your stock seat to make you want for something a bit safer. This lead me to buy a 1978 911SC specifically for the race track. You can do the same. Buy a relatively inexpensive track car with all the safety gear (which is not suited for regular street use) and keep you beloved Boxster. These are my thoughts.

Lawrence_P

Drop me a pm is you wish to chat about this. Been there.

paradisenb

It is far more likely you are nearing the limits of your talent than the car.

"I too feel that I'm driving the car very close to its limits, but never felt like I have trouble doing it in a controlled way. More importantly, they stress safety, and the need for seats, harness, HANS, and a roll cage, at my increased speeds."

Ha Ha. Been there. Thought that. Just before I hit a wall and destroyed the car. I had seats, 6 pt harnesses, and HANS. I'm sure this would be mandatory if it were not such an attendance killer. Worked well enough in this case but, not enough safety on the track.

Buy a race prepped car for the track and keep the B-S for the street. A B-S is lots of fun and low maintainence.

I'm convinced everybody develops speed before skills and experience. Too bad because everybody's luck runs out sometime.

Good luck.

OntarioMark

Eric and Randy have it right. I really enjoyed DE in my Boxster, though I am sure I was not really close to its limits. Regardless of that, often in the back of my mind would be thoughts of how I would fare if I stuffed the car into a wall, or, even if I was completely ok, how would I get the car home at the end of the DE if it was not driveable. That consideration matters if you are driving 4 to 5 hours to a track event from your home. Get a track car and a trailer. I have kept my Boxster for the street and have the old 911 with all the safety gear for the track.