Keep the Boxster (987) S or "upgrade" to 996 GT3 ?
08-22-2008, 01:17 PM
#31
Track Day
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Ray, Christian -- thx for the nice pics. Ray, very nice set-up. Mine should be similar except ALL (seats, harnesses, exterior, interior) in black. Christian, maybe that's how mine will look in a couple of years. 
Z.
Z.
08-22-2008, 01:37 PM
#32
Three Wheelin'
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Z:
Dont build one buy mine when you are ready.
Also for the record I personally watched a boxster do a rollover in a very high speed turn. I suspect many factors were in play but the driver walked away presumably with minimal injury. Some of my concerns with the folding top are being harpooned by the struts and breaking my arm(s) if they punch thru. You may want to consider arm restraints in addtion to your other safety-gear. The car I mentioned held up very well during the shunt as the front windscreen and hoops served as rollover protection. BTW the car was totalled or very near it.
Enjoy and have fun.
Dont build one buy mine when you are ready.
Also for the record I personally watched a boxster do a rollover in a very high speed turn. I suspect many factors were in play but the driver walked away presumably with minimal injury. Some of my concerns with the folding top are being harpooned by the struts and breaking my arm(s) if they punch thru. You may want to consider arm restraints in addtion to your other safety-gear. The car I mentioned held up very well during the shunt as the front windscreen and hoops served as rollover protection. BTW the car was totalled or very near it.
Enjoy and have fun.
08-22-2008, 02:18 PM
#33
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It's going to be a while before I can write off a $60-100K car, and if you can't blithely write it off, you shouldn't be tracking it. (Although you can track it and run 9/10ths, but where's the fun in that?)
As the 944 racers here have indicated, finding the limits (of the car and yourself) has nothing to do with horsepower. A balanced street car lets you learn all the dynamic forces, but a street suspension with street tires and OEM seats will make it harder to really feel, manage and use those dynamic forces. Upgrade those parts, and then you REALLY start to learn. Be warned, though, that the better a car is on the track, the worse it is for street driving. I've got 400# springs and will soon have my racing shells, and I find that the periodic street drives are getting less enjoyable.
If it depresses you to give lots of point-bys, or if you truly live for the top end, and to pass folks on track, then you may need the HP car. To me the pipe dream is real racing, and once you are racing, you won't have horsepower advantage to make you happy. My last HPDE was in the Red Group at a Ferrari/Lambo/Maserati event and I gave 10 point bys for every one I got. But my lap times were consistent, and would have been in the mix for a 944Cup race, and that was very gratifying.
As the 944 racers here have indicated, finding the limits (of the car and yourself) has nothing to do with horsepower. A balanced street car lets you learn all the dynamic forces, but a street suspension with street tires and OEM seats will make it harder to really feel, manage and use those dynamic forces. Upgrade those parts, and then you REALLY start to learn. Be warned, though, that the better a car is on the track, the worse it is for street driving. I've got 400# springs and will soon have my racing shells, and I find that the periodic street drives are getting less enjoyable.
If it depresses you to give lots of point-bys, or if you truly live for the top end, and to pass folks on track, then you may need the HP car. To me the pipe dream is real racing, and once you are racing, you won't have horsepower advantage to make you happy. My last HPDE was in the Red Group at a Ferrari/Lambo/Maserati event and I gave 10 point bys for every one I got. But my lap times were consistent, and would have been in the mix for a 944Cup race, and that was very gratifying.
08-22-2008, 02:20 PM
#34
He drives the car mostly on the street and IMHO the car has plenty of power for street applications.
Yes, it is not as stiff as my S2 or probably your 924 but would you want to take a 3 hour drive on the parkway with it with your wife or GF. Not me (or my wife)
Chris, you and I are further down that slippery slope than he is and I think that at this time and with his experience he's better to learn with what he has.
A Boxster S is a very quick car on the track when driven well, even in mostly stock configuration.
Just my $.02
08-22-2008, 04:47 PM
#35
I don't have any documented evidence of comparative safety, that's just my feeling from my experiences. I had a friend that I raced karts with that went into formula cars. He rolled the formula car and had he landed on something relatively flat he would have been fine, but a tire from the barrier got between the front cowling and rear hoop, and he sustained pretty bad injuries from that. That's more of what I worry about, than the car flattening. Saying that, even though I'm sure porsche has thoroughly tested their hoops for rollover, they're still somewhat unsupported--think of any rollbar you're seen--they all have supports going all the way to the top, and there is a reason for that. The boxster hoops are at best supported halfway up.
Again, for taking it easy for the occasional DE, you should have similar safety to any other 3 point belted, stock car out there. Would I push a semi prepped boxster hard w/ only the factory hoops? No way. Try it for a while, and see if you want to get more into DE. If you do, then I would really consider adding more rollover protection to your current car (unfortunately hard to do-just ask Christian), or get a car that you can put a bolt in roll bar in.
Again, for taking it easy for the occasional DE, you should have similar safety to any other 3 point belted, stock car out there. Would I push a semi prepped boxster hard w/ only the factory hoops? No way. Try it for a while, and see if you want to get more into DE. If you do, then I would really consider adding more rollover protection to your current car (unfortunately hard to do-just ask Christian), or get a car that you can put a bolt in roll bar in.
08-22-2008, 06:27 PM
#36
Track Day
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Again, for taking it easy for the occasional DE, you should have similar safety to any other 3 point belted, stock car out there. Would I push a semi prepped boxster hard w/ only the factory hoops? No way. Try it for a while, and see if you want to get more into DE. If you do, then I would really consider adding more rollover protection to your current car (unfortunately hard to do-just ask Christian), or get a car that you can put a bolt in roll bar in.
I don't think I'm "taking it easy" at the track, either. True, I don't slam on my brakes before turns, and I don't hit the rev limiter on every straight (what's the point/skill in that?), but I do carry a lot of speed in the turns (1:04 at Limerock), as I feel that I tend more towards momentum ("smooth") driving. One, because I don't feel like butchering the car, and two, I end up getting faster lap times that way, anyway. Actually, I just replaced my original Potenzas 050 after 14k miles and 15 trackdays on them -- and they still had plenty extra thread left. I replaced them because my outside front tire edges were getting chewed up due to not enough negative front camber. With the new tires I adjusted that camber to the max stock allowable (-0.8) and I'm curious to see if that will save the outer edges some more. But I digress...
Anyway, the decision has been made, stuff has been ordered and I'm doing at least the next two years (about 20 track days) with that set-up. Hopefully, I don't roll over and nothing comes through the soft-top during that time. I'll just take my chances, I guess.
Z.
08-22-2008, 06:56 PM
#37
Z--Sorry, I forgot some of your original post. Didn't mean anything bad by it. All these cars are compromises in some way. There are plenty here who went from roll bars to full cages, b/c a roll bar just wasn't safe enough for them. As long as you feel comfortable, that's all that matters. I ended up just putting a harness bar in the 360 b/c I didn't want to go to all the trouble of building a rollbar in an aluminum car. I did one piece seats, harnesses, HANS, track tires and pads, alignment. I run that car hard, but still just have a harness bar. But, since I'm building a club race car, I'm OK w/ that compromise for the 4 DE's or so I'll be doing w/ that car among friends.
A mid engined car is hard to beat, and you'll love the seats and belts, they will give the car an entirely new feel. I instructed my friend who has a bone stock 360 like mine, drove his right after getting out of mine, and the difference was night and day w/o seats and harnesses.
Again, no offense meant at all. Try your 2 year plan, and then see what you direction you want to go. Have fun!
A mid engined car is hard to beat, and you'll love the seats and belts, they will give the car an entirely new feel. I instructed my friend who has a bone stock 360 like mine, drove his right after getting out of mine, and the difference was night and day w/o seats and harnesses.
Again, no offense meant at all. Try your 2 year plan, and then see what you direction you want to go. Have fun!
08-22-2008, 08:48 PM
#38
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08-22-2008, 08:57 PM
#39
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My two cents.....I own a 997 GT3 and a 2008 Boxster S. Nothing can touch the Boxster for driving around town. Ok, the GT3 looks cool but it always feels like a caged animal when driving on the street in town. On the highway there is no comparison....GT3. On the track....duh.
But.....I think its great to have one of each. I'd keep the Boxster S street worthy and build a dedicated track car. If you "track-out" the Boxster you lose the beauty of its perfect compromise of street performance/comfort.....one opinion.....best of luck.
But.....I think its great to have one of each. I'd keep the Boxster S street worthy and build a dedicated track car. If you "track-out" the Boxster you lose the beauty of its perfect compromise of street performance/comfort.....one opinion.....best of luck.
08-22-2008, 11:43 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
Good choice keeping the Boxster S.
I have one and would not trade it for anything for driving on the back roads.
As far as a hardtop goes I would not bother as it really does not add any structural rigidity. You may find out as your speed (and skills) increase that the top will flap a little but its no big deal.
I seriously doubt that more than a handfull of people on this board have the ability to fully drive their car to its max. I know I don't and I'm an instructor....go figure
At some point you may want to get some R comps and track pads and then you'll have a whole new car to learn
I have one and would not trade it for anything for driving on the back roads.
As far as a hardtop goes I would not bother as it really does not add any structural rigidity. You may find out as your speed (and skills) increase that the top will flap a little but its no big deal.
I seriously doubt that more than a handfull of people on this board have the ability to fully drive their car to its max. I know I don't and I'm an instructor....go figure
At some point you may want to get some R comps and track pads and then you'll have a whole new car to learn
I'm not so sure we are differing...
He drives the car mostly on the street and IMHO the car has plenty of power for street applications.
Yes, it is not as stiff as my S2 or probably your 924 but would you want to take a 3 hour drive on the parkway with it with your wife or GF. Not me (or my wife)
Chris, you and I are further down that slippery slope than he is and I think that at this time and with his experience he's better to learn with what he has.
A Boxster S is a very quick car on the track when driven well, even in mostly stock configuration.
Just my $.02
He drives the car mostly on the street and IMHO the car has plenty of power for street applications.
Yes, it is not as stiff as my S2 or probably your 924 but would you want to take a 3 hour drive on the parkway with it with your wife or GF. Not me (or my wife)
Chris, you and I are further down that slippery slope than he is and I think that at this time and with his experience he's better to learn with what he has.
A Boxster S is a very quick car on the track when driven well, even in mostly stock configuration.
Just my $.02
08-23-2008, 03:15 PM
#41
